 Is there such a thing as a 'good' Dragon? |
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 Dec 23 2006, 09:22 AM
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#101
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116  |
Well, I dont think it's so much that bugs are evil. They.. are quite simply alien. Most mammals tend to think alike, work togeather towards a common goal etc. And also generally have very strong survival instincts (There are exceptions for example... stereotypical Lemmings come to mind)
Alot of bugs on the other hand are... different. Ants for example. Very communal in a way but they fight by swarming recklessly and they are generally qutie territorial. Bees tend to ignore things that dont bother them, wasps are VERY agressive (so are killer bees) and will attack without provocation. Mosquitos are parasites plain and simple, flys are simply scavengers, beetles.. well that depends on what kind of beetle. So in a way it sort of depends on the type of bug spirits. I could certainly see a queen bug willingly working alongside humans for the benifit of both if it was the right 'kind' of insect. Ants for example have been often known to form simbiotic relationships with other insects and such. It could also quite simply be Ares is retaining control soley by force. Keep the queen captive and under super heavy guard. Keep any bug spirits far away from the queen as possible, if they start doing anything 'out of place' hurt the queen, if they keep it up, geek her, most of them will die as a result. Regardless they'll aparently loose that social cohesiveness among those that dont. I also wouldnt be too supprised if a number of the bug spirits working with/for Ares are infact free sprits. There's some mention that qutie a few went free after operation extermination. Ares doenst even have to offer up human hosts either, they've certainly used a great number of paracritters and normal animals for such things. If they DO have a fully co-operative queen... well. Thats bad news for runners. |
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Dec 23 2006, 09:54 AM
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#102
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Or maybe it's just that mankind hasn't anthropomorphized insects the way they have dogs, eagles, and even spiders. I mean, seriously, everybody knows of Arachne and Anansi, but there isn't a brother Termite figure in really any mythology. That's why there's a Spider totem, but no termite totem. So i think it's largely a problem with human belief; for us, a dog is loyalty, an eagle is freedom and haughtiness, but a locust is a locust is a locust, at best. Locusts aren't made into gods of anything; they're just annoying little shits that eat crops. And the same goes for every arthropod but Spider. |
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Dec 23 2006, 10:14 AM
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#103
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
SL James has it correct. I actually have a fair number of shadowrun books. They all seem to make sense, and are for SR3. |
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Dec 23 2006, 10:29 AM
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#104
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
I still dont see why people have this big bug in their pants about SR4. But what ever. Allways some purists out there untill they get taken out by drop bears.
And to Emo, ehhh.. check out a few of the more recent childrens animated movies. There are anthromorphized ants in An Ants Life and a few others as well.. They certainly try to make ants look more human in that one. Mind you it isnt really common in human history, of that you are correct. |
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Dec 23 2006, 01:45 PM
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#105
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As for Damian Knight, I keep coming back to this little tidbit from Tom Dowd (doc file from Ancient History's website).
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Dec 23 2006, 01:53 PM
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#106
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Hah, I was going to link that myself when someone started speculating about Damien Knight having a spirit pact. |
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Dec 23 2006, 03:22 PM
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#107
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Yeah that does make me wonder allright. Are those short stories considered 'cannon'?
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Dec 23 2006, 04:26 PM
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#108
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Source? ~J |
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Dec 23 2006, 04:56 PM
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#109
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
House of the Sun, for one. I'm sure there are a couple of others, especially among the Earthdawn releases.
Yes, the short stories are indeed canon. |
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Dec 23 2006, 06:17 PM
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#110
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
That forum is next door, first of all. |
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Dec 23 2006, 06:21 PM
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#111
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Knight's working with the horrors?
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Dec 23 2006, 06:43 PM
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#112
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Or against them. |
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Dec 24 2006, 01:23 AM
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#113
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
What's with the "Damien Knight gets superpowered energy blasts" part?
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Dec 24 2006, 02:02 AM
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#114
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
That was not Damien Knight. That was someone Knight hired to sit in his chair when he was about to get assassinated by an insect spirit. Recall that this is written in 1992 and Knight hasn't made peace with any of the hives (it's 2053). -Frank |
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Dec 24 2006, 05:05 AM
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#115
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Dunkelzahn was the settings parrallel of JESUS forgod's sake (pun intended)
He gave his life to save us poor mortal humans the only difference is that the gods of fanpro buried the hints of a ressurection and made him stay dead... and then corrupted his church (okay so the last part might not be all that different) |
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Dec 24 2006, 05:36 AM
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#116
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yeah. basically, Knight has a mage or three that are kept continually training in a |
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Dec 24 2006, 05:55 AM
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#117
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 571 Joined: 9-January 05 From: In the 9th circle of hell Member No.: 6,950 |
It would make it a lot harder. What grade do you have to be to even cast on a space station?
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Dec 24 2006, 06:22 AM
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#118
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It would make it a lot harder. It's also pretty hard for people to lift office buildings. You'll note that office-building-lifting is not a method used by body-builders.
~J |
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Dec 24 2006, 09:53 AM
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#119
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Zero. The Eden Space Station is a Mana Ebb, not a Mana Void. You just need to have a Magic of 6, which means that you don't need to be an Initiate. -Frank |
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Dec 24 2006, 12:00 PM
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#120
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
So that means if you're there, if you astrally project, you won't die as long as you stay within a very small sphere.
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Dec 24 2006, 03:44 PM
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#121
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Eden isn't a station of its own, it's a section of the Ares Daedalus space station at LaGrange Point 4. But yeah, it is a special exception when it comes to being easier on magicians. That was the whole point of it being built.
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Dec 25 2006, 05:59 AM
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#122
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Why wouldn't Lofwyr understand insect spirits? And why was S-K so comparatively ineffective in fighting the invae?
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Dec 25 2006, 06:53 AM
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#123
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Because Lofwyr doesn't understand anyone. The Hive is the antithesis of Lofwyr's existence. He is the perfect example of the Selfish Actor, a philosophical ideal of Egoism. The Invae are Eusocial, they are individually willing, even eager, to sacrifice themselves for the good of the group. The Insects represent the philosophical ideal of Altruism to an extent similar to Lofwyr's. These opposing philosophies don't have common ground save in human action. Man is a social creature but a man is an island of individuality and all that. Lofwyr does not get behavior that is not personally self interested and the Insects do not understand actions motivated by ought else but the good of the whole. You can't buy the loyalty of an individual insect and Lofwyr does not comprehend the existence of the hive as a bargaining unit. He can't even understand friendship (see Survival of the Fittest), so something as out there as sublimating the self to embrace the self of group is just a string of words to him.
Because the Invae don't matter and Lofwyr doesn't give a shit. The last time they showed up they kicked some ass for a while and were driven underground and lived in caves meeping in the darkness writhing under the wrath of the Scourge just like everyone else. Lofwyr sees the Insects as a distraction and nothing more. People get concerned about them, but they really are in no danger of putting him in a coccoon so it doesn't matter. The way he sees it, Invae attack will cost everyone occassional contacts and subordinates with their attacks and schemes. Also, eventually they will be defeated because they are in total nowhere near as powerful as the massed armies of humanity. So from Lofwyr's perspective, the Invae are a Reverse Commons Problem. That is, eventually enough resources will be brought to bear against the Insects to defeat them. And until that happens, Invae attack will damage everyone's resources somewhat. So Lofwyr did the math on how much he expected to lose by putting in any real effort to defeating the bug menace, and how much he expected to lose by letting the Insects run rampage across the planet for long enough to convince some excitable human groups to chip in instead - and decided that he would lose more by committing resources against the Invae than he would by not committing resources against them. --- That's how Lofwyr thinks. And in isolation, that thinking generates the best possible results for one's self every time. But Ares has the better plan. They came out of the Universal Brotherhood confrontation stronger. They were able to play both sides - garnering allies and friends by committing resources against the Bugs, and getting allies of enough Bug groups who were awed and persuaded enough to join up. By committing in and being willing to work with and for others, Ares pulled ahead - even though they spent more on the Bug City problem than S-K lost by allowing the process to fester. -Frank |
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Dec 25 2006, 07:09 AM
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#124
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
What a miserable existence. |
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Dec 25 2006, 07:10 AM
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#125
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
What, Lofwyr's, or the invaes'?
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