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> Global Warming?
Charon
post Dec 23 2006, 07:37 PM
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SR4 usually reflect 60 (now 65) years in the future the fears of today.

I.E. The "punk" in cyberpunk mostly comes from the wave of criminality of the 80s and the premise was that this would continue to go worse.

So what of Global warming? Didn't see much reflection of that in SR canon even though ecologist make dire prediction for the Earth of 2050 and beyond which should make good fodder for a cyberpunk setting.

And we have the actor in places too ; Various Eco-terrorist cells, toxic shamans, Amazonia...

So where are the tales of melting glacier threatening to change some major ley line? Tiny island on the verge of being swallowed by the ocean and with a last minute desperate evacuation plan? Wacky or outright dangerous large scale magical ritual to reverse the trend (perhaps blood magic)?

---

What brought this up? Well, Christmas is upon us and here in Montréal, home of the most famed hockey team in the world, we have no snow. Worse, it is currently raining. When I was a kid we could count on a white christmas but in the past decade or so our winter has shortened drastically.

I was at a store doing some late shopping when I heard this gem of a conversation :

Young Kid : "What's that, daddy?"
Dad : "That's a snow blower, son."

:eek:

And just 50 years ago one of our most famed poet was singing : "My Country, it ain't a country, it's Winter." Not anymore. It's a long, long autumn.

Anyway, made me think of Global Warming related SR material and lack thereof.
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Chandon
post Dec 23 2006, 07:43 PM
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It's not that global warming hasn't occurred and didn't cause massive problems... It just wasn't as bad as Vitas.
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Charon
post Dec 23 2006, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (Chandon @ Dec 23 2006, 02:43 PM)
It's not that global warming hasn't occurred and didn't cause massive problems... It just wasn't as bad as Vitas.

VITAS was 40 years ago in SR and was two distinct crisis that are over. Global Warming is an ongoing process that would hypothetically reach critical points at around game time.
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Demonseed Elite
post Dec 23 2006, 07:47 PM
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There have been many ecological disasters in the Sixth World, which can be attributed to all sorts of things, whether it's global warming or the Great Ghost Dance. Acid rain and ash storms pour down on Seattle, super-typhoons smash into Hong Kong, etc.
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Trigger
post Dec 23 2006, 07:48 PM
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I could see global warming reversed a bit with the coming of the Awakening and magic returning. I mean, a forest sprung up across Ireland, the sea spewed its garbage back onto Germany and its neighbors and well, one of the biggest causes of warming, aka the US, gets split in twine and half becomes Native American territory, which would be more than a bit eco friendly. I am just saying, maybe through all that global warming lessened and sort of cleared up.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2006, 07:48 PM
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People in Shadowrun do some pretty impressive things to keep the orld from being destroyed by the sun. In addition to the magically extended rainforests acting as a carbon sink, there's probably also managed algal blooms on top of Arctic subduction regions that sequester atmospheric carbon for one thousand years. That doesn't stop global warming, but it does keep Greenland from melting until the Horrors come.

Of course, maybe it isn't enough because a lot of LA is under wter - which is consistent with some global warming weather models.

-Frank
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Kesslan
post Dec 23 2006, 07:56 PM
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Keep in mind Global warming is not a fast process. Rising water levels and melting ice caps sure. But it's still going to take years for the problem to fully develop. The biggest issue is also not so much the melting ice, but the various life forms that cant adapt to the up to 2 degree temperature change, nto to mention the change in ocean currents which have allready had a lot of unexpected side effects.

The arrival of the awakening might well be part of the reason however. Look at the fact that no nuke detonated post awakening has EVER hit it's full potential.

The Ceremak blast was oddly a contained explosion, so too were the nukes Winternight did manage to have go off.
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Charon
post Dec 23 2006, 08:02 PM
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Indeed, there has been some ecological concern in SR. Enough so that to include global warming formally into the canon wouldn't include serious retrofitting.

Still, it hasn't been really adressed. Most of the wacky natural disaster of the sixth world have more to do with either magic or the desire of the designers to shake things up than with global warming. Sometime it quite simply defy logic (i.e. I think I remember New York being hit by a powerful Earthquake).

And if the solution to GW is magic, it's a wonderful occasion for a campaign based on such a large ritual possibly involving blood magic. Or for large scale technological solution. Both offering a lot of fodder for run.

QUOTE (Kesslan)
Keep in mind Global warming is not a fast process. Rising water levels and melting ice caps sure. But it's still going to take years for the problem to fully develop.


Well, it has been years. 65 years, now. By some of the most catastrophic previsions (Which are of course those that would be used in any self respecting cyberpunkish setting), we'll be in real trouble in 2070.

---

The Amazonia ain't truly the lungs of the planet. That'd be the Ocean by a very large margin. I don't think regrowing the Amazonia would do that much to slow Global Warming.

Beside, it might turns out that most of the increase in heat is simply the Sun being in an increased cycle of activity, anyway, with greenhouse gas only hastening the inevitable.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 23 2006, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE
I think I remember New York being hit by a powerful Earthquake


Yeah, me too. In 1737 and 1884, both Magnitude 5. Not a big deal for Los Angeles, but moderately devastating in New York. Still, the fault system in question can easily generate a 6 or a 7 which would flatten a lot of the buildings made of unreinforced masonry. The previous recorded earthquakes were 147 years apart, and the last one was 122 years in the past.

Earthquake + New York isn't a weird impossible scenario - it's specifically one of the ocurences that FEMA regarded as a "likely"major disaster. The fact is that New York is not prepared for an earthquake and it is widely believed to be "impossible" - despite the act that we're actually due for one in less than 30 years.

-Frank
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Jack Kain
post Dec 23 2006, 08:14 PM
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The did have global warming but nuclear winter canceled it out.
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Charon
post Dec 23 2006, 08:21 PM
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Well, waddya know. Google agrees. New York sometimes has Eartquakes.

Anyone warned Donald Trump?
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Demonseed Elite
post Dec 23 2006, 08:50 PM
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A good bit of research has gone into the effects of an earthquake in New York City
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psykotisk_overle...
post Dec 23 2006, 09:43 PM
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Well, they are farming grain in Antarctica in 2070 IIRC. All the strange weather in the sixth world is probably partially caused by global warming and both L.A. and parts of the Netherlands are flooded. Personally I'll go with fishfarms on the north pole and a lack of atoll islands by 2070, but I'm not sure SR canon displays global warming that prominently.
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SL James
post Dec 24 2006, 12:40 AM
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Global warming is not why L.A., parts of the Netherlands and most of Denmark are underwater exactly.

QUOTE (Charon)
Anyone warned Donald Trump?

And ruin the insane mocking laughter coming from Roise O'Donnell? Are you crazy?

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Of course, maybe it isn't enough because a lot of LA is under wter - which is consistent with some global warming weather models.

Well, not the mountains being underwater.
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Pthgar
post Dec 24 2006, 12:55 AM
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Maybe global warming was overblown and is seen as alarmist psuedo-science in the 2070's, similiar to how the new-age crystal stuff is scoffed at by actual mages.
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Draug
post Dec 24 2006, 01:38 AM
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As far as I know, weather patterns in the Sixth World make for thoroughly shitty weather conditions all over the planet, right? Rain, sludge, etc. Sounds like something's going down, at least.

However, with the reduction of fossilized fuels, reduction of the increasing population (and therefore the increasing consumption) thanks to VITAS (there's another conspiracy for you!) and all the magic that's going on, perhaps the whole thing has slowed down again, so that it's not really that high.

Still, I want to agree with Charon: Worst-case scenarios are the preferable ones for this genre, so bring on the global heating!
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SL James
post Dec 24 2006, 01:59 AM
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There is also the conflicting effect of global cooling arising from the depositing of tons of particulate shit into the atmosphere. The Great Ghost Dance alone would have neutered the global warming trend for another decade or two. The Ring of Fire conflagrations in 2061 would have set it back further.
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Lovesmasher
post Dec 24 2006, 02:43 AM
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L.A. could be underwater without any further developments in global warming. It's the ol' continental divide.

New York generally sees Donald Trump as a joke. Have you ever seen the movie Layer Cake? In it there's a millionaire guy who is almost entirely without class. He's kept around the upper crust because he's crass and entertaining and fun to laugh at. He's not there because he's powerful or has friends.

In the high end real estate mogul world, Donald Trump is the equivalent of Wal-Mart.
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BookWyrm
post Dec 24 2006, 03:19 AM
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Sounds to me like the Big Apple is due. And I live an hour's train ride form Manhattan. :rolleyes:
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Magus
post Dec 24 2006, 05:28 AM
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::waves hand (Jedi Gesture):: There is no Global Warming


::Waves Hand:: Al Gore is a Poof!!
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otaku mike
post Dec 30 2006, 10:39 AM
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SoA's chapter on Oceania has, IIRC, some plots on rising sea levels and islands disapearing underwater in the pacific.
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Kesslan
post Dec 30 2006, 10:52 AM
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Yeah, I think it's not so much that it doesnt happen it just doesnt quite present itself.

Still to this day I have people say to me there's no such thing as global warming.

Riiight.. So the perma frost in the arctic has been thawing for the past few years because of what then?

That huge ass iceberg that broke off Elsmir Island just.. happened because right? Surely ice melting couldnt possibly be the cause!

The fact that it's been statistically proven that Ottawa (the city I live in) has seen less and less snow over the years, cant possibly be due to mythical global warming!

Never mind that 10 years ago every winter the piles of snow along our driveway would go to at least my shoulders if not right over my head.

This year I've had to shovel the driveway only twice.

There has yet to be any snow over an inch or two.

We used to get over half a foot on a regular basis start as early as October.
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Blade
post Dec 30 2006, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (Kesslan)
Never mind that 10 years ago every winter the piles of snow along our driveway would go to at least my shoulders if not right over my head.

No, it's just that you've grown up since then ;)

More seriously, even if I don't doubt global warming, all the climate changes may not be related to it.
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SL James
post Dec 31 2006, 02:43 AM
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*ahem*

QUOTE (SL James)
There is also the conflicting effect of global cooling arising from the depositing of tons of particulate shit into the atmosphere. The Great Ghost Dance alone would have neutered the global warming trend for another decade or two. The Ring of Fire conflagrations in 2061 would have set it back further.

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Charon
post Dec 31 2006, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 30 2006, 09:43 PM)
*ahem*

QUOTE (SL James)
There is also the conflicting effect of global cooling arising from the depositing of tons of particulate shit into the atmosphere. The Great Ghost Dance alone would have neutered the global warming trend for another decade or two. The Ring of Fire conflagrations in 2061 would have set it back further.

These ponctual events only screw up the climate for a short time, AFAIK.

For example, in the late 19th century the Krakatoa erupted so violently that it cooled down the earth by one degree for about 5 years.

But once the particules falls down its back to normal. It doesn't change the big picture, just offer for a ponctual shading of the earth, so to speak.

We kinda need another one of those giant eruption like the Krakatoa. We had to wait until after christmas to get snow this year! ;)
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