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 Jan 18 2007, 10:02 AM
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#26
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
If a simple, intuitive interface couldn't be done in 2005, I can't think of any technological development that would allow one soon-ish. They'll just have to cut down on options, keep it down to a few simple settings, and so on. But I never read up too much on how, exactly, the fire control computer on the XM29 functioned, nor how the equivalent systems function in similar projects like the FN F2000 and the various national military programs.
Absolutely. AFAIK, the last protos weighed ~7kg/15.5lbs empty, compared to ~5.5kg/12lbs of a loaded M16A2/M203. That's what happens when you slap a long barreled 20mm repeating grenade launcher onto an assault rifle carbine and top it off with a large fire control system and batteries. The problems with having the combination I mentioned above have mostly to do with exactly size and weight. Having both a long barreled rifle and a long barreled grenade launcher in the same weapon, with two receivers for two automatically cycling weapons and two large magazines means you've got one massive gun. You'll notice that most of the similar projects currently ongoing only use single-shot 40mm grenade launchers, or a 3-shot Metal Storm 40mm launcher in case of the Australian AICW. |
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Jan 18 2007, 10:30 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Yeah. So far the Metalstorm solution seems to me like it would be the best one. Its... abit of a bitch for changing out ammo when you need to do so quickly however. Shit htis the fan i think the last thing you want to do is swap out several HE for HEAP. And at the asme time you dont really want to limit yourself to just one munition type.
Still ath 15.5 vs 12lbs thats only 3.5lbs more. Thats.. not a huge difference really. Though I can well imagine it might make enough of one to count for something. Also didnt the XM29 have a 50 round caseless mag capacity vs the techcnially 30 or so you get from a typical assault rifle? And something like a 6 round 20mm mag? NOt to mention you can quickly swap out the grenade mag for what ever one is needed at the time thats a pretty powerful option. If it works. Hell.. dump all that computerized shit. Throw on a regular sight. How well will it work then I wonder? Should probaly also loose some weight now that you dont have the batteries and such to worry about. |
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Jan 18 2007, 10:39 AM
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#28
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
If the barrel swapping is made easy, it shouldn't take much longer than changing magazines on the XM29 launcher, or indeed reloading an M203.
Without the reliable, accurate airbursting munitions, the 20mm high explosive rounds would have performed quite poorly in the anti-personnel role, which would have seriously gimped the overall effectiveness of the system. |
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Jan 18 2007, 10:51 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Hmm fair enough. I allways thought the use of the 20mm was a touch small. But what the hell do I know about explosives? Not much :D
As for barrel swapping. Does the AICW actulaly just have a swappable launcher barrel then? Slip one barrel off slip another one into place on the trigger mechanism or something? Cause yeah if thats the case not much time difference at all. At the most it wouldnt take any moer time than say.. fitting a bayonette. Which is actually something alot of firearms are phasing out. Dispite their continued occasional usefuleness. Such as that one incident a while back where some british soldiers in Iraq had to fix bayonettes for some reason or other. Worked damn well for them then apparently. I recall some blurb in the paper at the time about it. Though to be honest I dont follow -too- much of what goes on over in the Middle East these days. It's really just more of the same. |
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Jan 18 2007, 11:08 AM
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#30
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The launcher in question at World.Guns.Ru
It must have a swappable barrel. Current Metal Storm weapons cannot be reloaded on the field in any other way. |
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Jan 18 2007, 11:12 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Huh.. as a top mount too. Though I suppose on the Styr thats the only way to go. If it wasnt for the offest scope I'd wonder where the hell they'd put the sights. Seems.. kinda awkward to me though. Wonder how well it actually works when it comes to weapon balance.
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Jan 18 2007, 04:39 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
I could see a metalstorm GL reloading exactly like one of those 40mm GLs that pivot to the side. Open the action, insert barrel, close action.
Hmm I wonder if you could do exactly that. Package a metalstorm system that can literally be loaded as an extra-long round in a 40mm GL. |
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Jan 18 2007, 05:10 PM
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#33
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I think that's how it works. If you look closely at the picture at the link austere emancipator provided, you can see where it can be opened at the end (somehow it can't exactly translate what I mean, exactly :(). Instead of to the side, you open it upwards. I never found out if you have to change the whole barrel or only the rear part (the part where the grenades are in, kind of like a magazine). I think the second, but I'm not sure. |
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Jan 19 2007, 05:18 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Well if you look at the theorized metalstorm handgun they use a rear loading system. There's this tube that holds the rounds that you stuff into the back of the handgun. So if their figguring that sort of system will work it's quite likely to work in a similar way for a grenade launcher. I mean for it to be quickly changeable -something- has to stay anchored to the rifle afterall so you can just lock in some quick change part.
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Jan 19 2007, 08:41 AM
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#35
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Those "tubes" being the barrels. The first version clearly breaks open on a hinge and is reloaded by removing and replacing full barrels. In all the pictures I've seen of the shinier version, the barrels are still quite obviously single units which very strongly suggests a similar method of reloading. |
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Jan 19 2007, 08:51 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
So basically its just one barrel loaded inside of another. Ehh.. grit would be a bitch in a case like that I'd think. Though I suppose you could do something to the actual eh.. well I don tknow what the hell you'd call it. It isnt really a magazine well but it is on the handgun that they did with the magazine slot on the Uzi apparently. Which was put in these groves for any grit (like sand) to be pushed away into. Or there's some sorta setup like that or so I've read in several books.
You'd deifnately need some sort of easy to grab and pull on end piece to the gunbarrel or sleve what ever you want to call it that he rounds are loaded into. Overall I just.. really don tsee that as being terribly practical if you cant field load the munitions. |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:29 AM
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#37
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, no. It's a barrel inside a barrel-holder. ;) The barrel doesn't have to fit in perfectly with zero tolerance, it can just be slid in and locked into place. If you get +/- 2 MoA zero shifts in reloading it, no worries, a Metal Storm gun is too inaccurate to bother with something like that.
From this picture, it seems that either the barrels automatically protrude slightly from the rear of the receiver when it is flipped up on the hinges or else they can be very easily made to protrude so as to allow quick swapping. However it's made, there can be a simple switch that will release the barrel and make it easy to remove.
You can field swap barrels. At some point in the (near?) future, it might be possible to swap only the rear part of the barrel where the cartridges are. Loading rounds into a barrel in field conditions is not going to happen without massive changes into how the weapon operates, as discussed in several threads about the Sakura Fubuki. |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:47 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Which.. really just holds the point up even more. I mean its a good and for some things practical idea. But if your going into an all out war who really has the advantage here? The guy who can load rounds into his mags or the guy who has to buy replacement barrels pre-loaded from the factory? Not to mention that if you can reload the mags that means that if you only have one or tw rounds left per mag you can combine them all neatly into one fully loaded magazine. Which.. is not something you can readily do with this system. To me thats a pretty serious negative right there when your in a situation where your really desperate for ammo. Still.. in cases where thats not really an issue.. such as say law enforcement thats a pretty decent if not quite as cost effective an application I supose. |
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Jan 19 2007, 05:13 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
That's the basic problem to MetalStorm. In a way it's like some of the better Nazi designs that were military failures because there wasn't the material or manufacturing back-end to let enough be built despite being highly efficient and effective. MS will almost definitely make its way onto Phalanx systems if it hasn't already. It may also make for multi-use anti-personnel charges on vehicles. It could be valuable for some aircraft, possibly gunship weapon pods where you would trade the mass/volume of the ammo handling system for increased capacity. MetalStorm in the hands of infantry ...... Nahh, not so much. Ammo management is a pain, the supply line is limited, cross-loading is out, and I wonder about ammo cook-off in destroyed vehicles in combat. |
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Jan 20 2007, 04:23 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Well ammo cookoff in destroyed vehicles is going to be pretty much the same anyway. Just look at the Bradley, or alot of the tanks that go up when destroyed.
Your mention of gunships does however make a great deal of sense however. I mean as I understand it most of those weapon pods can very quickly be removed so you can swap out fully loaded pods on the pad and it can jump right back into the fight while reloading crews deal with reloading the spent pods for the next chopper. Some aircraft weapon pods might benifit from it as well, but not so much I think. I suppose ultimately it would work well enough in any properly established base to a reasonable degree. But the moment any such base starts to feel a serious logistics squeeze it could become a problem. Then again.. I suppose most bases these days are flat out wasted or abandoned before they ever get to that kinda point. |
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