 Magical Tradition Percentages, How Many of Each Tradition? |
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 Jan 2 2007, 06:18 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483  |
Hi, I was just wondering. SR4 does mention that roughly one percent of the world has some magical ability. Also it has the various traditions, but has anyone ever said how many people there are of each tradition? Shamans and Hermetics seem to be the majority. However it also seem from fluff that each tradition has a 'home range' where it is if not dominant a significant minority. And all of that leaves out people with a spirit/spell knack, spirit sight, and of course Adepts.
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Jan 2 2007, 08:21 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
It does not state any numbers anywhere.
I would say that Hermetic is probably the vast majority of Mages/PhysMages. Path magic is by far the dominant for Adepts. I would rate Shamanism as very low on the totem pole (nice eh?). As portrayed in Shadowrun it is a North American Indigenous practice. If taken to represent all Animistic traditions then it would be big. However, street magic does come out with other Animistic traditions (Shinto springs to mind) so it probably doesn't making it miniscule. Christian Theurges (sp?) and the Arabic traditions (can't remember name) as well as Hindu and Buddhist traditions would probably also be unbelievably large. Currently Catholicism and Islam are the two biggest Western religions in the world representing at least a billion people and Hinduism and Buddhism each represent about a billion. So half of the world population follows one of these 4 religions. |
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Jan 2 2007, 09:27 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
So, let's start form there. Even if only one third of all people come to to develop traditions based on their religions.. You can do the math for yourself. |
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 Jan 2 2007, 09:34 PM
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#4
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,497 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
I think there are quite a few shamans. Non-indians become shamans, too, 'these days', and it's certainly more common among the lower classes, since only the higher classes really can afford to study hermeticism, I'd think.
Bye Thanee |
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Jan 2 2007, 09:38 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,259 |
Is that list correct? 33% of the world is Christian!? Damn, that's a lot more than I thought...
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Jan 2 2007, 09:44 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
You have Catholics and Protesent ... Most of them do not think that the others are Christens.
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Jan 2 2007, 10:26 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Carteful with assumptions. For instance, it is a mistake to default to the assumption that all Christian magic users are theurges. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a Hermetic Christian magician. Other faiths may be more or less flexible but keep in mind that religion does not dictate a specific magical practice (ie. a shaman is going to have a hard time in the vast majority of Islamic nations, but fits right in with Animistic Islam as practiced in Central Asian steppes and parts of Mongolia.)
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Jan 2 2007, 10:50 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
There is also nothing wrong with a christian shaman. Someone who is mentored by Saint George the Dragonslayer is just one of the more obvious that come to mind.
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Jan 2 2007, 11:03 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Note I said even if only one third... |
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Jan 2 2007, 11:46 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
The average UCAS magician is Hermetic, teh average CAS magician is a Shaman, teh average Aztlan magician is an Aztlanish Mage, teh average Tir magician is a Hermetic, the average NAN magician is a Shaman.
That pretty much covers North America. Japan will have Shintoists, China will have Wuxia, and Europe has a dash of Druids, but is largely Hermetic as well. |
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Jan 2 2007, 11:57 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
California?
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Jan 3 2007, 12:09 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
A magician using Saint-George as a mentor spirit and christian imagery as his frame of reference for crafting magic is hardly a shaman. Forget about pre-SR4 (and to a lesser extent, pre-SR3) definitions where any magician with a "totem" was a "shaman". Shamanism as a tradition is now far more specific a term. |
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Jan 3 2007, 01:25 AM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Oh, I meant more than just having a mentor. If the christian in question prays to do magic, this would be very shamanistic in SR4 terms.
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Jan 3 2007, 02:06 AM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
That would only be shamanistic in SR2 terms where by necessity anything spiritual in magic was shamanistic. No, praying to the saints for a miracle is a very catholic thing to do by any definitions. And it would probably be Christian Theurgy in SR4 term, or whatever christian based tradition the GM came up with. |
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Jan 3 2007, 02:11 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
And would pretty much be the definition of Christian Theurgy.
Dude, you even said prayed! Shamans (shamen?) do not pray. They may commune, placate, bargain, ask for guidance, etc... But they do not pray to their mentor spirits. Unless we've got any animists in the house who care to enlighten me? edit: Right, old age is clearly slowing me down. |
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Jan 3 2007, 02:22 AM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Just for the sake of argument:
Shamans pray to the wind, the elements, their totem, their ancestors or their god by chanting, meditating, singing, dancing, praying. Theurgy, by defininition, is a mix of hermeticism and qabbalism. |
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Jan 3 2007, 02:30 AM
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#17
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
most people would consider prayer asking for guidance. Shamanism might not want to be the label you want to apply to Christian magic, but the system sure works for it.
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Jan 3 2007, 02:32 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
People can ask for guidance during prayer; however, the act of prayer is not asking for guidance but focusing upon one's faith and offering dedications to the higher power of one's choice.
edit: Oh, and on an unrelated note the numbers for the big faiths seem to have not changed much in the last twenty years or so, at least off the top of my head. I want to think Islam's expanded a lot since then, but I may be wonked on that. Scary that Scientology is now working its way in there though. |
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Jan 3 2007, 03:26 AM
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#19
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
It's been here since the Universal Brotherhood module was released. |
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Jan 3 2007, 03:28 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Really? I was referring to its rise in numbers IRL, though those are notoriously difficult to determine. Now, how about statting out a Scientology magical tradition. :)
Is there a spirit of crazy? And what the hell would they use for a drain attribute? And what mentor spirit would Xenu best be represented by? Hmm...this could keep me up all night. |
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Jan 3 2007, 03:47 AM
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#21
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
just use the same rules for insect spirits. All the rules. ;)
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Jan 3 2007, 03:53 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
From all four editions? Hmm...
Of course they seem to care more for worshippers money than using their bodies as...wait, how do I know that, maybe they're just all perfectly integrated spirit/host fleshforms! That explains The Cruise's escapades. Oh now I've gone and done it. New Mentor Spirit, Tom Cruise. Le Sigh. Time to find a way to balance a bonus for lightning bolting Oprah. |
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Jan 3 2007, 03:59 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
Neither hermeticism nor qabbalism have anything to do with shamanism so I don't even understand what your last comment mean in relation to your previous posts. Anyway, you seem to still want to link christian theurgy to the old SR3 magic system where everything was either Hermetic-like or Shamanic-like. Anything spiritual was treated like shamanism with different totem. But SR4, a Druid isn't a shaman by a different name. He's a druid. Likewise a Christian Theurge isn't a disguised shaman. Shaman in SR4 is a precise term, not a catch all term for any magician that rely on spirituality. So you feel there are similarities between catholicism and shamanism? Well yeah. And between any two given religion. A catholic priest is still not a shaman, a druid or a budhist monk. |
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Jan 3 2007, 03:59 AM
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#24
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I've been trying to find some sort of completely whacked out magical tradition for an NPC in my game (besides toaster). That's the one I'm using. Thanks. |
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Jan 3 2007, 04:05 AM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
This is probably the thing I like the best about SR4 magic. It's so customizable without having to read whole chapters about wuxia or voodoun to use the "alternate" traditions. If I want to play a scientologist I can play one without having to be a Hermetic or Shamanic scientologist. Some of my players are also having trouble wrapping their heads around this. Oddly it is the rules-lawyers that have jumped on the bandwagon first. I think it's the customizability thing that attracted them--the RP is a bonus. |
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