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> [SR3] Surgery rules, Are there any better rules then M&M?
swe_wolfis
post Jan 3 2007, 05:09 PM
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I mean, if I want to install a alpha datajack, I pay 2000 nuyen for the datajack and 28800 nuyen for the doctor to think how to install it? WTF!

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Moon-Hawk
post Jan 3 2007, 06:14 PM
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I just assume that surgery costs are included in the cost of 'ware and get on with my game.
I know that's not the "better rules" that you're looking for, but it works fine for me. Besides, cyberware is expensive enough in SR3.
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Butterblume
post Jan 3 2007, 06:25 PM
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Could there be worse surgery rules? Hell, yeah, but you really need to think hard to create some that are actually worse :D.

I'm with Moon-Hawk on this one. I try to avoid situations where a char has wired reflexes III implanted in the morning, and goes on a run in the afternoon, but mostly we just waive time requirements, as long as it isn't too unbelievable (similar to learning new skills).
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Backgammon
post Jan 3 2007, 06:50 PM
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I only ever had to use to rules once (due to the problem that in SR3, you cant never afford new cyberware after char creation anyway).

I bought a reflex recorder or some small bioware like that. I remember the piece cost lik 50k, and I was expecting the surgery to be a huge cost, but turns out it was only a couple of hundred dollars. Although, it did take me like half an hour of cross-checking tables and stuff to figure all that out.

So, yeah, the rules suck. Long and clunky. From the prices I came up with, it might not be crazy to simplify and say it costs you 1% of the ware being installed for surgery.
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nezumi
post Jan 3 2007, 07:07 PM
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I generally go by the idea that half the price of the ware is the cost of surgery. I'd have to double check the M&M rules, but it would seem to me if there are modifiers, I'd have them work off the base value of half the cost of the ware rather than whatever else they suggest. Alternatively, those costs are for getting some other doctor to do it instead of the cybersurgeon who is selling the original gear, the cybersurgeon being a specialist who has only the training and tools he needs to do the job and is licensed to only work on the specific ware he's selling (or something similarly silly).
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Drraagh
post Jan 3 2007, 08:55 PM
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The thing is with surgery, you can get multiple pieces installed at once, so that cost of 28,800 (which is a 14,400 higher because you're dealing with Alphaware as opposed to standard ware) could also get you like four or five other things installed. It puts up the surgical test TNs, but it is more bang for your buck.

And looking at the lists, that's mostly where doctors make their money. Now, if you wanted to, you could write the procedure and have someone else follow it to save some money if the GM will let you. Or skip the procedure step completely. I don't think you get any options in that aspect, and you only suffer a few points added to your TN.
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eidolon
post Jan 3 2007, 09:47 PM
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I don't think I ever really used the cost rules, but I have used the recovery rules from it before.
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tisoz
post Jan 4 2007, 01:28 AM
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I use the surgery rules when a PC decides to play doctor. Then you can generate some target numbers and see how the positive and negative options play out.

Otherwise, I charge the cost of the 'ware then use the basic healing rules to cover any added hospital expense and recovery times.
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mfb
post Jan 4 2007, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE (tisoz)
I use the surgery rules when a PC decides to play doctor.

hot.
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Sphynx
post Jan 4 2007, 08:32 AM
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The rules are more than a bit askewed. The problem was that people were selling used cyberware to clinics, and everyone was ignoring the fact that the price of the cyberware included installation. In our games, the price of the cyberware is the price of piece+installation. No additional costs. We do use the surgery tables (primarily for the healing, and slot-filling or Bio/Essence-reduction). But the cost is the price of the piece. Although we don't go hacking out cyberware from cadavers to sell, I'm sure if anyone ever did the selling price would start at 1/2 the price of the piece (since surgery costs are taken out).
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Kesslan
post Jan 4 2007, 10:02 AM
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Yeah I've generally ignored the surgery rules myself they dont make much sense.

Though I played a doc on SR:Denver for a while at one point, and pretty much the surgery money was the only way a PC doc actually made anything since you paid book cost for the ware yourself. So in that light it usually wasnt unreasonably expensive except in rare cases where it was really stupid. So in cases like that alot of PC docs would just cut the surgery bill down to something more reasonably in line with what was being installed (Since putting in something like an alphaware datajack is really easy anyway)

For tabletop type games.. I just totally ignore it and assuem the cyber cost includes the install. So while PCs can ghoul corpses for money they wont get more than half (at best) book value. Afterall used ware by M&M gives you a discount too. Also if the PCs just hack it out any old way they wont get much for it anyway if anything at all. I mean you cant just say.. cruedly carve out a VCR from a dead riggers head with a combat knife and expect it to still be in good shape.

The smart ghoul then takes it to some one like tanamous or that crooked street doc and just sells em the corpse for X ammount of cash (assuming the corpse is relatively fresh some of the organs/tissue should sitll be good) and and additonal X percentage of the value of the cyberware.

So your average in decent condition (say.. mabye you just put a bullet in teh guys head) corpse would fetch you like 5k for the organs. And say the guy had a cyberarm you'd get 5k +25%-50% of the value of the arm.

Of course I"m one of those sick freak runners that often has a character that ghouls corpses quite often. Or at least does so when the oppertunity presents itself (cant have cops pulling you over cause yoru van is trailing a stream of blood behind it afterall)
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eidolon
post Jan 4 2007, 02:42 PM
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The longer recovery times can help explain away things like a player not being able to make games for a month for vacation or something, too. (Just tossing out ways/reasons that I have used them.)
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