 Ignite Loophole, Only Legal Combat Spell, well sort of |
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 Jan 7 2007, 12:43 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 106 Joined: 10-April 06 Member No.: 8,447  |
Every combat spell has a legality code of F, forbidden. This implies that it is illegal for the average citizen to learn any spell in the combat catagory. However ignite is a manipulation spell and thus only restricted. Flavor text in the BBB only mentions about restrictions on combat and mental manipulation spells. So under those laws it is illegal for a mage to safely knock out an assilant with a stun spell but perfectly legal to set him on fire!
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Jan 7 2007, 12:47 AM
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#2
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
You know, I expect that they would allow liscences for Stunbolt just as they allow carry liscences for Gel and Stick 'n' Shock rounds.
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Jan 7 2007, 01:07 AM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
fling.
levitate. magic fingers. poltergeist. alter temperature. [element] aura. [element] wall. petrify. turn to goo. bind. glue. sense removal. decrease [attribute] there's lots of damaging/disabling effects available that are not combat. what's your point? i could go on and list a few more that can disable if they are powerful enough. (agony, chaotic world, stink, foreboding, orgasm, intoxication, etc). there's nothing special about ignite. |
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Jan 7 2007, 04:24 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574 |
Any spell that has no other use than to hurt/maim/incapacitate people is highly illegal.
How many times have you read about someone flicking their fingers and lighting their pipe/cigarette/cigar with the resulting flame? That's why ignite isn't illegal, it has lots of minor uses and is so darn cool that for lots of mages it's their first spell -- it's the flashyness of it. Using it to light someone else on fire would likely carry the same legal penalties as using a blowtorch or any other source of flame to light a person on fire. |
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Jan 7 2007, 07:13 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
At least in my campaigns it's illegal to set people on fire :|, it doesn't matter if magic is used, I don't know how your DM runs things though so I won't judge :please:... Generally speaking though, it doesn't matter if you set someone on fire with a can of gas and a zippo, a WWII surplus flamethrower, or a force 24 fireball, the cops (and most juries) tend to frown on that sort of behavior. |
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Jan 7 2007, 07:29 AM
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#6
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It depends on who you set on fire. If it is a wealthy business man that is terrible. If it is a homeless person it is a public service. Its like that guy said, if you build a man a fire you keep him warm for a night but if you set a man on fire you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
And certain combat spells can't hurt anyone, particularly limited target versions of powerbolt such as Wreck Battlefield Earth DVD and Ram Bullet That Has Been Fired Towards Me. Heck, I'm sure that One Less Deer is far more humane than hunting with a rifle. However, all of these are illegal. |
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Jan 7 2007, 09:40 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
don't forget...it's not murder unless they have a SIN. |
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Jan 7 2007, 09:43 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
There's a question: Does 'One Less - Ghoul' have to specify meta type of the ghoul?
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Jan 8 2007, 01:40 AM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Maybe it targets the HMHVV, and it's become so much a part of the ghoul's aura that it slays the ghoul itself.
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Jan 8 2007, 11:26 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
One Less Deer, for real mans hunting, when you sneak up and slap them. :P
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Jan 8 2007, 03:24 PM
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#11
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Of course, I imagine that your Invisiblity, Sealth, and whatever the 'anti-smell' spell would be called are considered 'cheating' by the 'Real Men'. *winks*
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Jan 8 2007, 05:06 PM
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#12
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Just to echo the sentiment, it's illegal to know a spell to safely knock on an assailant, but legal to know a spell that could, potentially, set someone on fire. It's legal for me to own, and even use, a ballpoint pen, but that doesn't men it's legal for me to stab someone in the eye with it. |
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Jan 8 2007, 05:54 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Ignite doesn't kill people, Mages kill people! -- Commission to ban Mages. It's just like our gun laws today. It is illegal to possess a fully automatic weapon, or a shoulder mounted rocket. Because these are devices that are defined as having no purpose but to kill people. It is legal to own a handgun, a rifle, and even a semi-automatic weapon, because these devices have purposes other than killing people. They *can* kill people, but also can do other things. Combat spells by definition are created to hurt/kill people, and nothing else. I suspect One Less Deer is illegal under the idea that knowing One Less Deer can pretty easily allow knowing One Less Human. And also because defining legality codes for every single possible spell is annoying. ;) I could easily see the general rule of Combat == F being broken in certain aspects. However, I can just as easily see things like "Wreck Battlefield Earth" redone using Manipulation principles. |
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Jan 8 2007, 06:12 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
I tend to look at it this way. As a mage if you use a combat spell (no matter which one), the police then have full authority to arrest you, but if you use a manipulation spell they need to detain you and see if you have the appropriate registrations to use the manipulation spells. And if you don't then they will arrest you. Either way if you use a spell you will have the police after you. The same goes for using a firearm, explosive, on private property, etc (other SR activities here).
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Jan 8 2007, 06:16 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
The legality of spells you know and use will change from country to country, state to state, and even district to district. It may be legal (or just overlooked) if you use a stunbolt in Redmond but use it in Ft. Worth and you will have more lead in you then a pencil.
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Jan 8 2007, 06:55 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
I think this spell should not only be legal, but highly encouraged. :grinbig: Well, Levitate has the famous 'levitate someone x meters up and drop them', which can essentialy do more damage than a manaball. Im still a little weird with all combat spells being forbidden. There are plenty of pretty hefty guns that are only R. I mean, an argument might be 'well, guns are used for selfe defense and hunting.' Could a combat spell be self defense? And who goes hunting with an SMG, AR, or full-auto shotgun(all R legality?) Ok, answer to that: some critters nowadays NEED a FA Shotgun or AR to take them out, true. A manaball would be effective also, though. I think a critter hunter should be able to get a permit for combat spells. I dunno, i dont see why combat spells couldnt be R. While guns HAVE other purposes as mentioned...you could use spells for the same thing. Mages going hunting? I agree, might be more humane than a gun! I suppose i think of it like Guns: used for self defense(scaring away or hurting/killing people), hurting/killing people, hunting, security, etc. Combat Spells: Self defense, hurting/killing people, hunting, security. Elemental Manipulation Spells: As above, but also include electrocution, setting things on fire, and melting them to sludge. Well, houserules are easy enough. And, as mentioned, there is nothing said that EVERY place has to have forbidden combat spells. |
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Jan 8 2007, 07:03 PM
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#17
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Because the majority of people who make laws and who vote for the people who make laws can not, themselves, use magic, and thus fear its use against them.
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Jan 8 2007, 08:02 PM
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#18
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Pretty much. |
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Jan 8 2007, 09:01 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
owning a gun is not illegal (unless you lack the permit, which can be traced etc...) so like you pointed out it is "Restricted it is also a physical piece of evidence that 100% of the investigation teams can investigate. it is however "Forbidden" to conceal a firearm without special permit, and even then it is illegal when inside of a structure where the owners prohibit it. which is pretty much everywhere. even when concealing a weapon it is your duty to inform those in authority anytime you come in contact with them that you are indeed concealing a weapon. but you cannot know a mage can cast a combat spell until he does. outside of rational thought like has been pointed out people fear things that they don't understand treating it with violence and prejudice. |
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Jan 8 2007, 09:44 PM
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#20
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it fits the game world. people don't trust magic, generally; it's new and scary. so spells get slapped with restrictions that aren't apply to guns.
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Jan 8 2007, 10:22 PM
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#21
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Well, thinking of it like that i can understand it a bit more. I mean, you need a permit to carry and conceal a weapon, an FN HAR is restricted and can cause more damage than a Force 1 Powerbolt thrown by an inexperienced mage.
However, when you fear something...i suppose if i ran into someone on the street who could toss said force 1 powerbolt and break a window with it...id be a little freaked too if i didnt understand it. The FN HAR, i mean, id be intimidated by, cos i know it could mow me down...but i might be more afraid of the guy who broke a window by looking at it. |
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Jan 8 2007, 10:59 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574 |
If a guy has a gun and he's waving it around at people and not walking quietly with it, then the police can be sent after him. If he stops in front of you, you know whether to drop to the ground or something, as you can see where his gun is pointing. If a mage walks up to you, where's he "pointing his spell"? You don't know. That's why, IMHO, those types of spells tend to be more illegal than guns.
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Jan 8 2007, 11:58 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 584 Joined: 15-April 06 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 8,466 |
Why does any of it matter? If you are a shadowrunner chances are you are SINless which means you are screwed regardless of what type of spell you cast. If you work for the corps well extraterritoriality is a beautiful thing, so it does not matter there. Lastly how exactly are you going to prove who cast the direct combat spell? Unless it was touch good luck.
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Jan 9 2007, 12:09 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
There was a thread about spitits a day or two back that went into great detal about how expert testimony from forensic magicians who will assense the signature will have you hung. Note: My reference does not imply agreement. |
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Jan 9 2007, 01:53 AM
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#25
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It isn't terribly difficult to notice a spell being cast, but f ti goes unnoticed it would be simple to remove the signature before leaving.
However, it is also true that Slaughter Invae and Nomadblast are forbidden according to the legality codes and these restrictions make no sense. I think everyone would agree that killing nomads is a good thing. Of course, the firearms legality codes are a bit off, too. Sporting rifles and handguns should be L instead of R and slencers should be R instead of F |
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