+2 to a skill, but the skill's in a skill group, Does one still get the bonus to a skill? Options

[Banaticus]

For one reason or another, a character has a +2 bonus to a skill, but the skill in question is part of a skill group for that character. Does the character still get the +2 bonus for that skill, even though "skill groups and specializations can't be used together"? The bonus is not from specializing. It could be from a totem spirit, a merit, a piece of cyber/bioware, etc.

[Lantzer]

Depends on how that +2 is applied.

If its extra dice, like cyberware gives, or totem bonuses, it's not increasing the skill so can be used with a skill inside a group no problem.

If its a bonus to the skill itself, as in some adept powers, or certain bioware (reflex recorders?) (per errata), then it breaks the skill group and you can still use it - you just no longer have a skill group.

Specializations are funky in that they are a unique case of a dice pool bonus that is incompatible with a skill group.

[Nikoli]

It seems silly they would break the group. Seems you would just add the +2 when you use the skill and otherwise leave it unchanged.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, this whole deal confused me for awhile...then i was shown the difference(here, i think :D) of 'bonus dice' and 'skill increase'. Sort of like the difference between ''increased intimidation' and 'kinesics'. One increases the skill, one adds dice. With Kinesics, for example, youd get extra dice for EVERY damn skill in the group...(which has led to a bit of discussion about the power here.)

Increased Negotations, i believe, would break the group. (i think.)

And while specializing is very cheap(some say too cheap), and quite powerful...it pretty much nullifies the skill group for good, so you have to pay seperate to up everything.

[Jack Kain]

Now what happens if you say have reflex recorder in say the firearms group and later the group is broken?

[hobgoblin]

outside added dice to a skill should not break a group, but thats just my take made for sake of simplicity.

with the same simplicity in mind, i would say that the reflex recorder keeps adding its bonus to the group even if it have been split up.

as in, cyber do not affect the status of the group as a rules construct. only the use of karma does.

ochams razor (or however its spelled) ;)

[Squinky]

It shouldn't effect the group at all unless you pay karma to specifically add a specialization. Nothing else can break the group.

If one has firearms group at 2 and then gets a reflex recorder for only pistols, he will simply still have the group at 2, but benefit from the recorder with pistols. That simple.

[Jack Kain]

[Butterblume]

What hobgoblin said. A reflex recorder for groups adds +1 skill to all skills in the group. You don't need to have the group at all.

At least that's the only way it makes sense...

[Glyph]

The only two bonuses that would break up a skill group are those from improved ability and reflex recorders (and specialization, of course). Both of them increase the rating of a skill (And yes, this does mean that the gunslinger adept archetype has broken up her skill group by taking improved ability in pistols).

Other things only add dice. So, for example, a mage with the Dragonslayer or Seductress mentor spirit would still be able to take the Influence skill group.

[Butterblume]

[cetiah]

I was under the impression you can break up a skill group at any time, for any reason. Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that you could compile skills into skill groups if they all have the same rating and no specialization. It's really just a convenience thing... no actual information or statistics have really been changed. If you have Firearms skill and something adds to Pistols, just break up the group immediately and set the Pistols 1 point higher than the rest. If you bring up the other skills by 1 afterward, go ahead and put them all back into a Firearms skill group. No?

[hobgoblin]

groups have a small cost/value benefit if there are more then 3 skills in the group i think.

also, groups make for ease of book keeping.

rather then having to check if you have skill x, just look for the group that includes it :P

still, you have to keep in mind what group gives what skills. so maybe its not so much a benefit as it first looks like?

[Squinky]