A question about the Armor Spell

A question about the Armor Spell, and Force

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TheUrbanMonkey

Jan 7 2007, 08:53 PM

Post #1

Target

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QUOTE

Armor (Physical)
Type: P • Range: LOS • Duration: S • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 3
This spell creates a glowing field of magical energy
around the subject that protects against Physical damage. It
provides both Ballistic and Impact armor (cumulative with
worn armor) to the subject equal to the hits scored.

Is it possible to cast this spell at Force 1 with no reduction in effectiveness? I am seeing nothing in the way it is written to say otherwise.

However, I am GMing in shadowrun for the first time, so I don't know if I've overlooked something here. Am I correct in assuming that the "hits scored" bit is referenceing a Spellcasting + Magic test? If so, is there any reason to cast the spell at higher Force than 1?

I tried to search for an answer to this, but i did not find it... perhaps my search-fu is weak.

hyzmarca View Member Profile	Jan 7 2007, 08:59 PM Post #2
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456	Fits are limited by force. At force 1 only 1 hit counts.

TheUrbanMonkey View Member Profile	Jan 7 2007, 09:08 PM Post #3
Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4-December 06 From: ein Loch in der Wand Member No.: 10,192	oh really? hm. well, that makes that decision easier! thanks!

James McMurray View Member Profile	Jan 7 2007, 09:09 PM Post #4
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	Beaten to the punch, so I'll just chirp in with a "hyzmarca's right." Sorry I don't have a book handy so can't give a page reference, but if you missed that you may want to reread the magic section, as there's a few little things like that which, if missed, can make magic users much more powerful than they should be.

Konsaki

Jan 7 2007, 09:15 PM

Post #5

Runner

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QUOTE (BBB End of Pg171 and Start of Pg172)

A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force serves as a limiter effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.

TheUrbanMonkey View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 10:00 PM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4-December 06 From: ein Loch in der Wand Member No.: 10,192	another question on a similar topic: Spells can be cast while Astrally Projecting, right? I'm not seeing anything saying otherwise, but i wanted to check. Also, for some reason, I had the idea that only Mana spells can be cast while Astrally Projecting, which is why i went looking for the info, to show to someone else, but i couldn't find it. Did i make this up, or what?

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 10:02 PM Post #7
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	You didn't make it up, you got it from an old edition. And you can cast spells while Astrally Projecting, but the spellcaster and the target always have to be on the same plane. So when you're Projecting you can only cast spells against other people who are projecting, or dual-natured (such as someone astrally perceiving). Mundanes are totally safe from the projecting sorceror.

Demerzel View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 10:03 PM Post #8
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856	Spells can be cast while astrally projecting. Spells must be Mana spells (Not physical). You cannot target objects/people/etc. that are not astrally active.

Moon-Hawk

Jan 8 2007, 10:10 PM

Post #9

Genuine Artificial Intelligence

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QUOTE (Demerzel)

Spells must be Mana spells (Not physical).

Are you sure?

I might be wrong about that above, I'm not positive.

Fortune

Jan 8 2007, 10:50 PM

Post #10

Immoral Elf

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Well, there's this little tidbit ...

QUOTE (SR4-pg.171)

A spell that affects a target physically is called a physical spell, while a spell that affects a target through mana is called a mana spell. A physical spell can only affect a target that has a physical form, and is incapable of affecting an astral form (see the Astral World, p. 181). Mana spells can only affect living things or entities composed of mana—such as spirits or foci.

Banaticus View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 10:54 PM Post #11
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574	What if the magician goes onto the astral plane then manifests somewhere -- he can then cast physical spells as he's on the physical plane, correct?

Fortune View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 10:59 PM Post #12
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	Nope, as he is not actually on the Physical Plane in that example. He would still be Astrally Projecting.

Banaticus View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 11:05 PM Post #13
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574	But a mage astrally projecting from the physical plane to the astral plane doesn't count as being on the physical plane and can't cast physical spells, so why isn't the mage "projecting" or manifesting from the astral plane count as being on the physical plane?

Fortune View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 11:09 PM Post #14
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	Because he is still Astrally Projecting, and merely extending his (senses? aura? whatever?) to the Physical, usually for communication purposes. Note that the manifesting mage is not as vulnerable to attacks on the Physical as he would be if he were actually physically present on that plane.

Demerzel View Member Profile	Jan 8 2007, 11:14 PM Post #15
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856	This is one that always gets me. Manifesting != Materialization. Materialization is what spirits do. It gives them a physical form, they materialize. Manifesting is what an astrally projecting mage does or a Watcher spirit (Maybe a real spirit can do it too), it puts an image of the mage into the physical world, sort of. It is not really there, physical recording devices do not record it, but people can see it. It is basically a mana based affect that puts you into peoples heads like a mana illusion would.

Moon-Hawk

Jan 9 2007, 02:30 PM

Post #16

Genuine Artificial Intelligence

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QUOTE (Fortune)

Well, there's this little tidbit ...

QUOTE (SR4-pg.171)

A spell that affects a target physically is called a physical spell, while a spell that affects a target through mana is called a mana spell. A physical spell can only affect a target that has a physical form, and is incapable of affecting an astral form (see the Astral World, p. 181). Mana spells can only affect living things or entities composed of mana—such as spirits or foci.

Hmmm, well that is a good point, isn't it? :P

Still, depending on your interpretation of exactly how sorcery works I could see an argument for an astrally projecting mage using a physical spell to target a dual-natured creature.

RunnerPaul

Jan 10 2007, 01:08 AM

Post #17

Neophyte Runner

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 9 2007, 09:30 AM)

QUOTE (Fortune @ Jan 8 2007, 05:50 PM)

Well, there's this little tidbit ...

QUOTE (SR4-pg.171)

A spell that affects a target physically is called a physical spell, while a spell that affects a target through mana is called a mana spell. A physical spell can only affect a target that has a physical form, and is incapable of affecting an astral form (see the Astral World, p. 181). Mana spells can only affect living things or entities composed of mana—such as spirits or foci.

Hmmm, well that is a good point, isn't it? :P

Still, depending on your interpretation of exactly how sorcery works I could see an argument for an astrally projecting mage using a physical spell to target a dual-natured creature.

Well, if that didn't convince you, how about this:

"An astral target can only be affected by mana spells" p.173, SR4 core rules.

"But my target is dual-natured," you may protest. To which I retort:

"Spells are never dual-natured" p.167, SR4 core rules.

In short, if you're casting the spell from the astral plane, it exists soley on the astral plane, and must follow the rules for targeting astral targets, one of which is "mana only".

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Jan 10 2007, 02:30 PM Post #18
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	Hahaha, okay, you guys win. I'm convinced. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :-)

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