rigging your own body, rigging a mostly borg body Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[celegar]

i was wondering if it is possible for a hacker/rigger to "jump into" his own body if it has mostly cyber parts such as a torso and two full legs.

my argument is that becasue when a rigger jumps into a drone, he controls the drone as if it were his own body, so when you jump into your body, it would act like your own body, just faster becasue your not relying on your meat senses for information

[Konsaki]

[Grabs his Munchkin Mallet]
This has come up before in the forums and it sounds like it contains the same amount of cheese as the last time...

[cetiah]

Well yes, but this is already worked into your standard mostly-borg body. In this case, you're talking about wired reflexes. So, you're not relying on your meat body anymore. If you used your body as a drone and recieved rigging enhancements, then you shouldn't recieve the benefits of all of the cyborg enhancements.

[cetiah]

[celegar]

well, hey, just trying to gain every advantage i possibly if it can keep my runner alive long enough for the next run. nothin wrong with powergaming

[celegar]

i forgot to mention that the main reason that i argue this point is to gain initiative passes. and its not like it comes with no disadvantages. because now you have to make pilot anthroform rolls and have to have cyber mounted weapons in order to use them, not to mention that you would have to have some form of sensor array in order ot percieve anything.

[cetiah]

That's fine, but I still don't think Wired Reflexes should grant intiative passes then since it augments your current meat reflexes, and in the rigging situation, you're replacing it. In other words, it wouldn't be worth it.

Besides, you can't combine different sources of initiative boosters anyway.

[Narmio]

So, controlling your own body directly is slower than controlling it by routing your control through additional devices?

I'm not a networks professional, but could you run that by me again?

[celegar]

its all in the processing speed.
in a meat body you have a biological raction dependant on muscle tone and definitionl. however when your rigging something, your movements are dictated at the speed of thought, its the same reason that its faster to hack something in hotsim vr then to do it in ar. your hacking programs run at the same speed, you can just respond to input faster.

[Eryk the Red]

It shouldn't work unless the body is entirely cybernetic. Which isn't possible. Because then it'd be a robot. Not a person. Or, worse, a robot with a human brain. Which is an ugly thing for Shadowrun in my opinion.
Cyberlimbs are not simply devices attached to the body. They are an integral part of the body. You can't bypass the nervous system because the limbs need the nervous system. It's how they work. So it's about the processing, right? That's what the nervous system does. How do you make the nervous system faster? Wired reflexes/synaptic boosters.

[Chandon]

Unless you have something like Wired Reflexes, the communication paths necessary to get the initiative boost just aren't there. An anthroform drone doesn't need any space at all for meat, so there's no trouble fitting in the control wiring and intermediate motion processing nodes. If you want to put that stuff in to go as fast as an anthroform drone, I'd say it would cost about 3 essence - maybe 1 if you made it bioware, but then the electronics interfaces would be harder.

[celegar]

technicly wired reflexes doesnt apply to cyberlimbs because it is bodyware and bodyware cannot be installed in cyberlimbs.

to touch point on exactly what a cyber torso and skull are is that the doc replaces the bone and muscle structure with the tech, its not just a metal sleave that they put over the bone and muscle. the book calls it just a shell because only the bone and muscles are replaced, not organs.

[WhiskeyMac]

Unfortunately for you Celegar the FAQ clearly states that someone in AR can hack faster than or just as fast as someone in VR mode. Apparently we have the technology to make people type fast as thought but it doesn't actually speed them up any faster. Oh well.

[celegar]

im not saying that they actually become faster, just that they can respont quicker to stimuli, which is exacly why you get two additional initiative passes while in full vr, because you can respont quicker to stimuli. as far as hacking in ar vs vr, the interval between checks would tend to contradict with the FAQ on that fact as the interval is longer between being able to make hacking attempts by about two seconds as you only get one attempt in ar per initiative unless you have wired reflexes vs being able to make a haking attempt every second while in vr, which is exacly my argument.

[laughingowl]

The catch is, you cant act any faster then your meat body...

Now if you go full cyborg replaceent (when rules allow) Rig your mecha all you want :-)


The CLOSEST I allow this is I actually remove the -6 perception penalty for VR (to the meat body), since the best I can figure this does NOT apply if rigging a drone while in VR even if doing other things at same time (though cant make action in seperate nodes). In effect I do allow a Rigger to 'RIG' himself in the sense of watching in a window whats going on with his drone (himself) even if also focusing on other nodes/connections.


From what I can read it is perfecty acceptable to:

1) Jump into Drone A
2) Be hacking (in VR) Stuffer Shack

While you are in VR, you arent taking the -6 perception check to notice things with the Drone.

Likewise I would still allow you to make the perception check on your meat body the exactly the same way (though the 'connection' to your meat body counts as a subscription to the limit you can maintain since you are actively keep a feed up from it).

VR gives little enough of AR, that the 'health' risk is more then enough (and they addiction factor if GM choses) to offset the extra dice (for HIT), that I do not feel the need to stick the additional -6 perception check into it also.

So basically VR + 2 dice (if hot) and fixed IPs at the cost of increase damage (and possible addiction).

AR = Safer (far less ways to get 'damaged') IPs based off meat body.

Perception is the same. (often will get hit with the 'distracted' unless your are focusingon the node you are making the perception roll) but AR/VR does not make a difference. (and NOTE: The meat body perception action is NOT a Matrix Action so the +2 dice from Hot Sim does not apply).


A slight edge for those wishign to run Hot SIM (as opposed to cyber/bio/adepted speed junky), elemintating one of the more painful (but from system standpoint does seem it should apply (To me) penalties.

Note: I dont encourage and actively work at discouraging 'always' running in hot sim , even if no baddied 'attacking' Dump shock becomes more of an issue, wihen something causes enough background to jam. (especially in places like barrens where signal is sketchy at best) and/or really begin to look at addiction rules if player is running Hot Sim VR just to go walk to the store while checking their email.

[Catharz Godfoot]

[laughingowl]

Rigging yourself isnt legal until/unless 'Rigger Adaptaion' is a piece of cyberware you can buy.

Now if you GM allows you to buy and wire into yourself the 'Rigger Adpation" modification for vehicles then you are subject to being controlled wirelessly or via direct cable.

The human body is not a 'drone' and cant be rigged. Now POSSIBLY if you have skillwires that might be the 'equivilant' of rigger adapataion, but probably still not quite enough.


As to the damage feedback. I dont see mine a requiring 'jumping' in so much (since you already are), but more just the same way your persona can be in 12 nodes at once (while you can only take an action in a node during a given phase, you are not at any penalty.

I dont see your body, being any difference then a drone, a node, or other 'window' you have open in your mind you are recieving feeds from. (Plus Hot SIM really needs love to me to make it worth it over AR+ IP boosts)



Now if somehow you have a rigger adapation kit on your body and you actually 'Rig' your body.

Your are correct you would be taking Damage + 1/2damage (stun) any time you got hit. (If running Hot SIM)

It wouldnt be a loop, since Drones cant take stun, the 'stun' daamge YOU take couldnt overflow to you via the Hot SIM.

Also this shouldnt 'kill' you though it could seriously up the pain, since for the 'Drone' to take damage (by the rules) it has to be physical and the 'overflow' to you is stun.

But until/unless you see a character with a 'rigger adapation' kit they cant be rigged. (and while such a device exists for vehicles/drones there is at present no such device listed for critters)

[Cynic project]

[celegar]

[laughingowl]

[celegar]

se essentially, if you can find a way for the body to not have any muscle movement while hacking in full vr(thats not very dificual) then all you need is a very complex anthroform drone system build in to your body.

[Jack Kain]

Rigging allows you to overcome the physical middle man when piloting a vehicle. Instead of thought, muscle drive. its Muscle then drive.
Rigging does not increase the maximum capibility of a vehicle. Adding the black box to a vespa won't double its maximum speed or triple its handling.

If you rigged your own body you aren't cutting out any middle man. Its still thought muscle. At worst it be slower at best it be the same speed.

Rigging makes you the brain of the machine allowing you to control the vehicle as if it was your own body. So rigging your own body would DO NOTHING.

[celegar]

except give you extra initiative passes

[cetiah]

[celegar]

were still debating, whenever i bring up something thats contraversial we will discuss it and as long as said thing isnt just nerfed then its ok. in this case, i think im going to remind him that while i am rigging my own body, i would take damage from feedback as if i were piloting a drone, in addition to having to make pilot anthroform checks to do something simple like climbing a ladder. at which point he will agree that it isnt just a nerf thing to do. so basicly ill be taking damage twice (once on my body then from biofeedback) in order to be able to move and hack at the same time.