Ancestral Free Spirit Options

[DV8]

Off the top of your head, do you know if there's a Shadowrun precedent that describes what could best be qualified as an Ancestral Free Spirit?

[Fortune]

You mean an actual 'character' example?

Do we know Buttercup's specifics?

[Kesslan]

Not exactly.

But there is simply a precedent for free spirits of all types. To me an 'Ancestral' free spirit, would simply be a free spirit that either portrays itself as, or perhaps more importantly 'believes' itself to be some one's ancestor. In the case of a free spirit, I would assume it's likely to either stick to one specific 'persona' or, possibly fluctuate between various personas but stick to that sort of 'ancestral' theme.

It could, especialy if it were a deceptive type, shift to try and match the likeness/personality of any given persons 'ancestor'. Dead relatives etc. If it's for manipulation purposes it's likely to be some one who was once close to the target, or an ancestor held in awe but otherwise unknown by the target. IE Your great grandfather who was a war hero but died before you ever met him, and was your inspiration to join the military or some such.

[adamu]

On this topic, has there been any canon indication about whether ancestor spirits (fluffed in SR4 as one form of Guidance Spirit) really ARE the ancestors, or, as you imply, just representations of dead people by confused and/or deceptive spirits?

My impression has always been that in some way they ARE the Ancestors' spirits, but then there is the ironclad No Resurrection postulate in the Core Magic Rules Structure, so would that be violated by the very existence of an ancestor spirit?

Or are we obligated to believe they are not REALLY from an afterlife because SR editorial (and game balance) policy is not to favor any one religion (which by extension would mean not acknowledging any religion to be true, which really messes with any concrete vision of an afterlife)?

[Kagetenshi]

It's always been vague, and my impression (possibly due to preference) is that they are not in fact of any human origin whatsoever.

~J

[Jrayjoker]

I have always considered them more of a Jungian archetype that uses the summoner (or whomever they are interacting with) as a basis for their behavior and appearance.

[Lindt]

To my knowledge no. It does specifically state that they don't go free in MitS somewhere, I'm almost sure of it.

At that point they would be more like ghosts anyway, right?

[Kagetenshi]

P113. They do not become free.

They also have no Great Form.

~J

[mfb]

[Kagetenshi]

There's no mention of any sea being filled with flames/lava, so it can be inferred.

~J

[hyzmarca]

Dunkie's ressurection as an amnesiac Free Spirit possessing a cyberzombie?

[adamu]

Okay, right, the Ironclad rule specifically applies to Sorcery, not necessarily all that is or can be conceived of in the SR universe. The clause in Street Magic also includes a maddeningly non-committal comment regarding this discussion -
From The Limits of Sorcery, pp 160-161

Sorcery Cannot Raise the Dead
Though spells can heal, once a person has passed away, they are gone forever (though some view conjuring spirits as raising the spirits of the dead).

So IF "some" are correct, then the no resurrect rule would not apply to Conjuring? Of course, without adding a physical body (which seems like the realm of Sorcery) it is not true resurrection, but then Guidance Spirits (SR4 Ancestral Spirits) have the same Materialization power as all the other sorts of spirits....

Sometimes I feel like the whole Ancestral Spirits thing was a nod to a bunch of real-world belief systems made without much thought for the rules vortex it would open up.
Or maybe I'm just being too uptight - each campaign can always interpret them however they please, and the rules are leaving things open for that.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Next up: can conjuring be used for teleportation?

Hmmm... that actually sounds like a fun goal to research for. Maybe make it part of a run.


Strange ritual to learn one's own true name, telephone that to a high initiate conjurer somewhere else, prepare vomit bag. Sounds like a valid process.

[hyzmarca]

The only problem there is that inhabitating spirits can't use a metaplanar shortcut when summoned with their True Name. When you call the True Name of a Grande Zombie three times it will be compelled to come to you but it'll have to take the bus to get there.

[Roadspike]