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#1
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 714 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .nl Member No.: 116 ![]() |
Off the top of your head, do you know if there's a Shadowrun precedent that describes what could best be qualified as an Ancestral Free Spirit?
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#2
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
You mean an actual 'character' example?
Do we know Buttercup's specifics? |
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#3
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 ![]() |
Not exactly.
But there is simply a precedent for free spirits of all types. To me an 'Ancestral' free spirit, would simply be a free spirit that either portrays itself as, or perhaps more importantly 'believes' itself to be some one's ancestor. In the case of a free spirit, I would assume it's likely to either stick to one specific 'persona' or, possibly fluctuate between various personas but stick to that sort of 'ancestral' theme. It could, especialy if it were a deceptive type, shift to try and match the likeness/personality of any given persons 'ancestor'. Dead relatives etc. If it's for manipulation purposes it's likely to be some one who was once close to the target, or an ancestor held in awe but otherwise unknown by the target. IE Your great grandfather who was a war hero but died before you ever met him, and was your inspiration to join the military or some such. |
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#4
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Snakehandler ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,454 Joined: 28-April 06 From: London, England Member No.: 8,508 ![]() |
On this topic, has there been any canon indication about whether ancestor spirits (fluffed in SR4 as one form of Guidance Spirit) really ARE the ancestors, or, as you imply, just representations of dead people by confused and/or deceptive spirits?
My impression has always been that in some way they ARE the Ancestors' spirits, but then there is the ironclad No Resurrection postulate in the Core Magic Rules Structure, so would that be violated by the very existence of an ancestor spirit? Or are we obligated to believe they are not REALLY from an afterlife because SR editorial (and game balance) policy is not to favor any one religion (which by extension would mean not acknowledging any religion to be true, which really messes with any concrete vision of an afterlife)? |
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#5
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
It's always been vague, and my impression (possibly due to preference) is that they are not in fact of any human origin whatsoever.
~J |
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#6
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 ![]() |
I have always considered them more of a Jungian archetype that uses the summoner (or whomever they are interacting with) as a basis for their behavior and appearance.
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#7
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Man In The Machine ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 ![]() |
To my knowledge no. It does specifically state that they don't go free in MitS somewhere, I'm almost sure of it.
At that point they would be more like ghosts anyway, right? |
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
P113. They do not become free.
They also have no Great Form. ~J |
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#9
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 ![]() |
was this added in SR4? i've never been able to find anything like it in SR3. |
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#10
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
There's no mention of any sea being filled with flames/lava, so it can be inferred.
~J |
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#11
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Midnight Toker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 ![]() |
Dunkie's ressurection as an amnesiac Free Spirit possessing a cyberzombie?
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#12
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Snakehandler ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,454 Joined: 28-April 06 From: London, England Member No.: 8,508 ![]() |
Okay, right, the Ironclad rule specifically applies to Sorcery, not necessarily all that is or can be conceived of in the SR universe. The clause in Street Magic also includes a maddeningly non-committal comment regarding this discussion -
From The Limits of Sorcery, pp 160-161 Sorcery Cannot Raise the Dead Though spells can heal, once a person has passed away, they are gone forever (though some view conjuring spirits as raising the spirits of the dead). So IF "some" are correct, then the no resurrect rule would not apply to Conjuring? Of course, without adding a physical body (which seems like the realm of Sorcery) it is not true resurrection, but then Guidance Spirits (SR4 Ancestral Spirits) have the same Materialization power as all the other sorts of spirits.... Sometimes I feel like the whole Ancestral Spirits thing was a nod to a bunch of real-world belief systems made without much thought for the rules vortex it would open up. Or maybe I'm just being too uptight - each campaign can always interpret them however they please, and the rules are leaving things open for that. |
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#13
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 ![]() |
Next up: can conjuring be used for teleportation?
Hmmm... that actually sounds like a fun goal to research for. Maybe make it part of a run. Strange ritual to learn one's own true name, telephone that to a high initiate conjurer somewhere else, prepare vomit bag. Sounds like a valid process. |
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#14
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Midnight Toker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 ![]() |
The only problem there is that inhabitating spirits can't use a metaplanar shortcut when summoned with their True Name. When you call the True Name of a Grande Zombie three times it will be compelled to come to you but it'll have to take the bus to get there.
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#15
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 389 ![]() |
Depending on your interpretation of teleportation, sure. Astral Gateway, moving through the Astral, then another Astral Gateway is pretty close to teleportation (even if not instantaneous). |
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