[SR3] SOTA: 2065 - Dumpshock Forums

[SR3] SOTA: 2065

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 08:50 AM Post #101
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Wow... triple post. :P Another error, it was intended to only be 2BP per Tradition, not 5. Ie: Adept costs 5 to be awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for a tradition, 1 for adept, 12 for 6 power points = 25BP Sorcerer costs 5 to be awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 6 for spell points, 3 for perception, 4 for sorcery = 25BP Shamanic costs 5 to be awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 6 for spell points, 3 for perception, 2 for sorcery, 2 for conjuring = 25BP Full Mage costs 5 for Awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 5 for spell points, 3 for perception, 2 for projection, 4 for Sorcery, 4 for conjuring = 30BP Everything was suppose to 'add up'. So in your example, the Hermetic adept it would have been: Awakened (5BP) Magic of 5 (4BP) Tradition of Hermetic (2BP) Adept (1BP) Astral Perception (3BP) Astral Projection (2BP) 5 Power Points (10BP) 25 Spell Points (5BP) Sorcery (4BP) Conjuring (2BP) Total = 38BP

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 11:03 AM Post #102
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	I got to thinking, about the Telepath. I think people forget that Psionicists can't use Foci at all. I'm not sure -1 Drain Level is sufficient enough to get people to play the Telepath actually. After all 2M vs 2S + Foci + unlimited spell categories + unlimited Geasa + totem modifiers is still unfavorable to the person who wants the Telepath character. If my objective were to create a character based around Influence, I'd still rather play a Shaman with Manip Totem mods and a Focus to offset drain. Although, the non-domain limited Thought Form might be considered worth that offset....

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 01:12 PM Post #103
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Ok, re-did the Magic pdf. Included art and headers this time around.

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 02:43 PM Post #104
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	For some reason I carn't read the pdf? Any clue why? Edit scratch that I was in firefox duho!

nezumi

Feb 6 2007, 03:26 PM

Post #105

Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;

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QUOTE (Sphynx @ Feb 6 2007, 03:08 AM)

Telekinetic Manip: The modifier is -2, not -2 per spell. So, sustaining 2 spells while casting a 3rd would incur a -2 (-4 + -2 ).

Ah! That makes more sense. I would recommend making sure the language is very explicit in that regard. Yeah, that's a good "bonus" for psions, that's pretty cool.

QUOTE

Control Manipulations: I assume you're referring to Influence there, since that's the only spell other than Control Emotions that the target isn't aware of being affected.

Oh hey, Mind Probe is Detection. Oops on that one.

However, Control Thoughts is not explicitly noticed by the target, and that's what I"m really worried about. Yeah, looking at the spell list, this isn't as much of a problem as I thought, Control Thoughts is the only dangerous one. If Control Thoughts is noticed by the target (at least if the target starts doing something really weird), this is a lot safer, but otherwise, if Control Thoughts is undetectable by most mortals, and the drain is so easily shrugged off, you're basically giving the telepath a card to wreak havoc.

Outside of that, has this been tested? My big concern is obviously going to be balance. Considering the player is paying almost as much for this one, tiny spell category as he would be to have access to ALL spell categories, it makes sense that it's powerful, but it has the potential to be too powerful.

QUOTE

Good idea, but I didn't want to claim that it's not actually a result of inner-breeding, actually wanted to suggest that most 'half' race members are children of inner-bred races, but that it only increased the chances, wasn't the rsult of inner-breeding. (After all, most people that will want a half-elf character will want a human/elf parentage)

Fair enough. I do like that the races in Shadowrun aren't the result of obvious genetics; a pair of humans can have a troll, an elf and a dwarf can have a human, etc. If your idea takes the game a step closer to D&D, I wouldn't be so keen on it, but as long as it's something that brings up controversy - could this happen to any couple? Are they elves? Humans? Or are they a category of their own? While they might consider themselves different from both, what do biologists say? Conflicts of opinion and prejudices are what can make this idea very interesting, I think.

QUOTE

Multiple Traditions was mostly for conjuring issues. For a Phoenix Shaman to summon Fire Elementals, he'd have to spend an extra 5 points to understand hermetic conjuring. For a FireHermetic to summon Spirits of the Fire, he'd have to know a but about Wuxing. And yes, I intended for it to be purchasable later.

I don't know... I'm still kinda uncomfortable about that. I would agree with Kage that I like shamanism and hermeticism (and all the others) clearly different and incompatible. This option begins to break it down, even if it's only for the purposes of conjuring. Currently no tradition (that I know of) can conjure both spirits AND elementals. For me, that seems like a good thing.

QUOTE

Obviously I need to clean that pdf up some.

Glad I could help :P Like I said, it's a neat base idea, but being a powerplayer at heart, I'm going to harass you about oversights until I can't find any more ;)

QUOTE

Not First school. One school of magic, and should be clariffied to 1 Category of Magic. My mistake.

I'm still not quite clear. You mean like say Fire? So if I get the 2nd level of conjuring ability, I'd be able to only conjure fire elementals and watchers?

QUOTE

Sorcerer costs 5 to be awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 6 for spell points, 3 for perception, 4 for sorcery = 25BP
Shamanic costs 5 to be awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 6 for spell points, 3 for perception, 2 for sorcery, 2 for conjuring = 25BP
Full Mage costs 5 for Awakened, 5 for max magic, 2 for tradition, 5 for spell points, 3 for perception, 2 for projection, 4 for Sorcery, 4 for conjuring = 30BP

Sorcerers have 35 magic points, not 30, so the cost would be 30BPs

I would also consider making astral Projection cost more. At 2 points, it's so cheap, I can't imagine anyone not taking it (heck, I can imagine people dropping 7 or 10 points in if they're going light on the cyber for that ability alone).

Glancing through the new PDF...

I don't think you have the right font. I couldn't tell you what the appropriate font is, though.

Closing of your first paragraph, "and" is broken up. I'd replace that little clause anyway, rather than "and a bit more" to maybe just "and more".

Character creation, I would write out the full name of the books (rather than SRComp and MitS later on).

"so GMs should be a little wary about how many points are spent on Magic. Players should be just as wary though, because the more points you spend"

I'd change to something more like "GMs should be vigilant against abuse. Similarly, players should be aware that over-specializing in Magic will penalize them in other areas". You use words like "little" and "bit", which aren't really necessary and diminish the effect of the sentence. Also, avoiding "you' is probably advisable.

I'd change the period between "Magician adept no longer... Magic in the Shadows. Nor ..." to a comma. Remove the 'you' from the next sentence. The final sentence can be made shorter, "This system will return the same costs, so using the pre-existing costs may be preferred for new players."

Awakened: I don't believe "mundane" is capitalized (speaking of which, I'm not sure that "Magic" should be capitalized, but at least you're consistent.)

Tradition: It just occurred to me, with this system, ALL adepts and ALL mages can spend karma to go into the other character type's domain?? Ack! I would think carefully about that! At minimum, make sure each magic point or initiation can ONLY be used as a magic point for spellcasting OR an Adept Power Point, but not both. Otherwise, a mage could just spend a bunch of points on magic AND power points and now he's a super cyber-mage equivalent without the geasa.

Sorcery:
"You may, of course, learn the same spell for a different Tradition that you belong to giving you 2 spells of the same name." I'd change to:

"The same spell may be learned for a second tradition the character belongs to, giving the character two spells of the same name but under different traditions."

Why is it cheaper to go from 5 to 6 magic than it is to go from 5 to 6 in any other attribute?

"as you can only buy a total of 6 Magic points ever with this system, prior to any Magic Loss." I would reword this to make sure it is clear this is addressing not ONLY during game play - you can't buy 6 magic points during chargen, then 6 more during game play.

Also, I would consider carefully whether I would want to allow mages to suddenly become adepts by spending a measly 10 karma, or go from being a sorcerer to a full-blown mage. This new system allows magical characters, a group that already had tremendous growth ability, to have nigh-infinite growth potential. In my game, I have historically had problems with the mundanes feeling they had a growth cap and the awakened feel like the sky is the limit. Your rules exacerbate an existing problem. This point is the single greatest reason why I fear these rules may be inappropriate to use, and one that, as a GM, you would need to address before I could accept them into my game.

Your chart is misaligned.

In the Psionics section, you refer to "MitS" again. That is worth expanding. Also, give precise page numbers whenever you are able.

If you'd like a more complete edit (since I only grabbed things that bit me on my nose), PM me and I"ll give you my e-mail address.

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 04:14 PM Post #106
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Telepaths: Control Thoughts works exactly the same for Psions as any other class. Our own interpretation of Control Thoughts is that you know your thoughts were fucked with once time passes on. Only the spell Influence states that you believe the thoughts to be your own. Considering the drain is barely equal for a Telepath as for a magic character designed around that spell concept, (2M vs 2S with totem mods and foci), I don't see the in-balance. Mixing Traditions: Only the Path of Righ does it, however, we've play tested this almost since Doc Funk first posted it, and never had any problems with it. So long that I actually forgot Sorcerers start with 35 instead of 30, an issue never fully 'fixed' in the original to current costs. And, unlike SR4, the traditions are still seperated with this. You can just have 2 seperate traditions. My very fist character with this option was an Awakened Magic 6 Shamanic/Hermetic of Loki. As the God of Magic, I decided that I should summon Elementals instead of Nature Spirits. Cost me 32 instead of 30 points because I had to buy an additional tradition so my spirits were of magic instead of nature. Would have cost me 36 if I wanted to summon both types. Conjuring: Level two can summon Watchers and Fire Elementals, yes. Or Watchers and Sky Spirits, or Watchers and Spirits of Fire (Category 1 plus one category of spirits that falls under a tradition you're a member of. Sorcerers have 35 Spell Points: Making them 26 instead of 25 (instead of 30 instead of 25). I will try to fix this now that I'm confortable with the idea. Why is Magic 5 to 6 cheaper than other attributes: Same answer as the Astral Perception/Projection. Sticking to the base cost so that when you add them together it costs the same to have the same character. I'll see if I can re-work it to fit in the +5 spell points with Magic at 2BP per level, but I fear it will make the Perception/Projection even cheaper and lose the ability to mutli-tradition, which was important to the idea. We'll see..... Karma Costs: I'm ALL for losing the Karma cost thing, or indicating it as a discouraged Optional Rule. The reason I had it was because we played Gangers once and had alot fewer points, so nobody could play a mage really, and survive at least. So, we integrated, based on the cost of buyign adept Power Points later in game, a karma system to evolve out of the Gangs and into a more full fledged magic user. And to be honest, it's actually alot of fun to evolve a mage like that, but can definitely be abuseable at the higher BP game level where the Karma expenditures just aren't needed except to 'powergame' better.

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 04:22 PM Post #107
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Actually, on introspect, if we lose Awakened as a purchase (it's kinda redundant anyhows), then those 5 points can be moved to raising Magic. Lowering Astral Perception to 2BP and raising Astral Projection to 3BP would fix the Spell Point problem, giving Sorcerers 35 Spell Points for 7. Magic 6: 10BP Tradition: 2BP Astral Perception: 2BP 35 Spell Points: 7BP Sorcery: 4BP Better?

nezumi

Feb 6 2007, 06:42 PM

Post #108

Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;

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QUOTE (Sphynx)

Telepaths: Control Thoughts works exactly the same for Psions as any other class. Our own interpretation of Control Thoughts is that you know your thoughts were fucked with once time passes on. Only the spell Influence states that you believe the thoughts to be your own. Considering the drain is barely equal for a Telepath as for a magic character designed around that spell concept, (2M vs 2S with totem mods and foci), I don't see the in-balance.

Hm... You make a point, and you're certainly right that there are better ways to abuse that spell (a raccoon adept, for instance). Really, my comments are aimed against the spell, not against your rules, and that someone who already abuses the spell can abuse it MORE. I guess I'm trying to apply a fix to your rules that should go to the offending spell.

QUOTE

Mixing Traditions: Only the Path of Righ does it, however, we've play tested this almost since Doc Funk first posted it, and never had any problems with it. So long that I actually forgot Sorcerers start with 35 instead of 30, an issue never fully 'fixed' in the original to current costs.

I'm not following. Granted, I don't know what the Path of Righ is either.

QUOTE

And, unlike SR4, the traditions are still seperated with this. You can just have 2 seperate traditions. My very fist character with this option was an Awakened Magic 6 Shamanic/Hermetic of Loki. As the God of Magic, I decided that I should summon Elementals instead of Nature Spirits.

So why did you choose shaman/hermetic instead of JUST hermetic and telling your GM that you follow the hermetic rules with shamanistic descriptions? For totem bonuses? I guess I can accept that you can make your own, new magic school this way, that gets totem bonuses and can summon elementals (or what have you).

I'm worried about someone saying "oh, my character was chosen by Dog and taught to do magic. Then he got accepted to MIT&T and learned magic there too. And his father was a ninja master, so he's also an adept." By the rules he CAN believe magic is simultaneously an exercise exclusively of the spiritual and an exercise exclusively of the mental, even if those two views are mutually exclusive.

Also, at which point do you choose a totem? Can you choose multiple totems? One totem per tradition? What if you choose two contradicting totems?

QUOTE

Why is Magic 5 to 6 cheaper than other attributes: Same answer as the Astral Perception/Projection. Sticking to the base cost so that when you add them together it costs the same to have the same character.

This also relates to the karma costs. Why does it cost 10 karma to boost Magic to 6 after chargen, but costs 12 karma to boost body to 6? Is this to avoid confusion with people buying back lost magic points?

QUOTE

Karma Costs: I'm ALL for losing the Karma cost thing, or indicating it as a discouraged Optional Rule.

I would definitely agree that, like I've been saying, the idea of putting down 5 BPs and building a mage over the course of the game seems absolutely fantastic. If I have these rules I WILL do that at some point.

I could see two ways of doing this; firstly, you can make the rules optional, so it's GM's discretion only. Secondly, you could make more of the options available only during chargen (for instance, tradition and adept options).

Related, the adept powers aren't capped. In order to fall in line with existing canon, I think Power Points should be capped at Essence - Magic Levels, with a maximum of 6. After that point, Power Points can be bought through initiation, as per the standard rules. This way you don't have a character coming out of chargen with 6 magic, 6 power points and a slew of spells. You also don't have the character buying his 7th and 8th power points at 20 karma a pop when officially initiation is now the method of advancement. Finally, you don't have a character come out of chargen with 10 or 11 power points already. (Currently, I can have a character with 1 in every attribute and blow all my points on power points).

Pendaric

Feb 6 2007, 09:44 PM

Post #109

Moving Target

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QUOTE

I definitely feel like we need to focus on grabbing stuff that expands Shadowrun outwards, not upwards. Astral art, tobacco products, race wars and telepathy push outwards. It seems like much of the focus so far has been on magic.

I have a small selection of micro unmanned ariel vehicles, which I also post on the forums. Currently there are none in cannon but the chassis exists in rigger 3 rvd.

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 6 2007, 09:50 PM Post #110
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	[ Spoiler ] Hakashima Watcher Similar Models: Fed Boeing Mote The Watcher has an odd niche market within a niche market. Simply being the longest ranged micro rotor. That being it sole selling point weighed against a heavy price tag it often loses out to cheaper and more flexible drones. Thanks to imaginative PR campaign implying a cheaper near magically invisible watcher it sees limited service in corporate surveillance both in security networks and covert intrusion in ex territory air space. It is also seeing a rise, with scavenged auto injector technology, as the discerning assassin’s drone of choice. Features: Rigger adaptation, Remote control, Suncell Handle 4 Speed 10 Accel 3 Armour - Body 0 Sig 12 Pilot 1 Sensors 1 Cargo 0 Load 0 Fuel 10 Econ 1.25km Idle Econ 25 mins/PF max range 12.5Km Cost 16, 830 SI 1.5 add-ons Auto injector: one dose capacity 2000:nuyen: +compound cost MCT Halo Micro rotor drone (UAV) Similar models: Ares Avian, Renraku Kies Nicknamed the flying eight or flying doughnut, the Halo is a staple of surveillance drone networks and personal messaging. It’s twin internal alternating turbo fans makes it a very stable viewing platform, so stable the tail turbo fan was included to help with manoeuvrability and breaking. At only a ten cm diameter, 14cm length along the central axis and powered with a fuel cell motor, its as hard to spot as any micro drone and a good deal faster. Why crawl when you can fly? The Halo Delux has an improved Pilot system and superconductive drive for a modest increase in cost. The incorporation of the Suncell technology has allowed the Halo near limitless use during diurnal operations however it is very limited at night. There are rumours that Renraku has a recharging mother ship drone or hive queen, on the drawing boards for use in a continual security drone network, increasing sales of their Kies. ()* stats are for the Elite Body 0 Load 1kg Speed 20(30)* Accel 4 Handel 3 SIG 12 Armour 0 Pilot 1(2)* Sensors 1 Fuel/PF Econ Idle Econ Take off/landing 10 .75km 15mins/PF VTOL Remote Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation, Suncell Cost Standard 11,900 SI 0.8 Elite 13,800 SI 1 Common customizations: + 100MP recording/memory +600 SI 1 +Photovoltic paint (think camouflage.) +5000 SI 1.5 Ares Arrow UVA micro drone Similar Models: MCT Fireball, SK white dragon Originally a test design for a larger vehicle, the Arrow excels in one area, speed! Little else on the market can compete with its single-minded dedication to getting fast and staying there. Most riggers love to feel the comparative sense of power without the draw back of negative g’s. Most have to assume the body just to keep control of this speed demon. For when you absolutely, positively have to get somewhere first, except no substitute. Features: Rigger adaptation, Remote control, Engine Customisation (factored in) Handle 4 Speed 80kmph Accel 8 Armour - Body 0 Sig 11 Pilot 1 Sensors 1 Cargo 0 Load 0 Fuel EC 6PF Econ 0.5 Idle Econ 10mins/PF max range 3Km Cost 11,100 Mitsuhama Shinobi Similar Models: SK Vigil, Ares patrolman The Shinobi is sold as an advanced mobile security patrol drone, capable of recognising personnel by facial recognition programs and cross checking via onboard memory or interfacing with a central database, then cross referencing with location and security clearance. Any error will trigger a warning followed by whatever measures the owner deems appropriate. From a polite verbal warning from the drone to full alert. The Shinobi has been credited with a 6% productivity increase in offices where it was monitoring employee time use. On the reverse the shinobi, with the correct instructions, can be released into a building complex with orders to monitor and record personal, building layout, security features and avoid detection. It can then return for download or pulse broadcast its findings to the waiting rigger. Features: Rigger adaptation, Remote control, IR spotlight (treat as IR hand flashlight), Rating 2 mini speakers VTOL Handle 4 Speed 10 Accel 3 Armour - Body 0 Sig 12 Robotic Pilot 2: Comprehension pool 2 Sensors 1 Cargo 0 Load 1kg Fuel E10 PF Econ: 0.5 Idle Econ: 10 mins/PF max range 5 Km Cost 18,250 SI 1 UVA MCT Dragonfly Micro rotor drone The Dragonfly has been popularised in amateur circles by its extensive use in Drone Wars aerial Ultra featherweight division, with Dragonfly league leaders receiving MCT sponsorship. The impressive carrying capacity of this four bladed ornithopter allows for a light pistol to be converted and attached to the under fuselage external cargo mount, nearly doubling the Dragonfly’s kill ratio compared to its hold out pistol totting rivals. MCT has recently started to manufacture the cargo mounts that had been, in the early days of the sport, been DIY conversions. Some riggers prefer a twin mounted holdout array but in both configurations the combination of manoeuvrability and speed, often puts the Dragonfly one step ahead this tense, one mistake loses, weight division. ( The dragonfly can only take up to light pistols. Anything heavier rips it apart when it fires. I leave to refs to decide how burst fire wrecks the drone’s movement/control. Permit for pistol apply J) Handle 3 Accel 5 Speed 30 Body 0 Armour – SIG 12 (11 with weapon) Auto - Pilot 1 Sensors 1 Cargo 0.05 CF external cargo mount Load 2 Fuel 9 PF Econ 0.5km Idle Econ 10mins/PF Max range 4.5km Cost 9,700 +25 external cargo mount 150 for a pistol conversion Kit. Ares Sparrow A micro autogyro design. Cheapest micro on the market. handling 4 Speed 10 Accel 3 Body 0 Armour 0 SIG 12 Pilot 1 Sensors 1 Cargo 0 Load 0 Fuel 8 Econ 0.25 Idle Econ: 5min/PF Effective max range: 2km Cost 4,625 nuyen.gif Street index 0.8 ----------------------------------------------------- Ares Swallow As above with an improved economy Econ 0.75 Idle Econ 15mins/PF Effective max range: 6Km Cost 7,125 nuyen.gif Street index 0.8

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 7 2007, 07:37 AM Post #111
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Sorry to drop back into the Magic chapter, just wanted to let you know what I've agreed to under the haggling skills of Nezumi over google talk. :P The only 4 things that can be advanced by Karma are: Magic (still limited to a total of 5 points, syntax will use the word 'finish' buying Magic up to 6) Power Points (Again, limited to a total of 6 points with use of the word 'finish') Sorcery and Conjuring, again use of 'Finish'. No buying Sorcery or Conjuring for another Tradition later. Tradition, Perception/Projection, Adept, etc will not be post-generation advanceable/changeable. Tradition limitation based on the syntax of page 158 of SR3. Also, considering changing cost of Adept to 3 (1BP is just too easy to not pass up as a non-adept) and only require Tradition selection if they want to cast spells or conjure (making it more expensive to be a Magical adept than before). Thoughts? Anyhows, I'll go over the drones later, but I agree with a definitive need for MicroDrones. Not sure what that last Drone is needed for though. Spoilers are done like this [ spoiler ] spoiled stuff [ /spoiler ] without the spaces.

Sir_Psycho View Member Profile	Feb 7 2007, 10:49 AM Post #112
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361	What happens if I buy magic at 5 and then install a datajack? That will bring my essence down and therefore it will be rounded down for magic purposes... down to my magic of five. Unless you think that magic loss will be incurred on top of my lower, existing magic rating? It'd be nice if you could clear that up.

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 7 2007, 02:54 PM Post #113
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	I thought it was stated pretty clearly Psycho. You can buy up to 5 levels of Magic. If you don't buy all 5 levels at Character Creation, you can 'finish' purchasing those 5 levels of Magic with Karma, later. Not seeing the room for confusion there..... Feel free to re-word it to be more clear, I'll gladly put someone elses wording into it.

nezumi View Member Profile	Feb 7 2007, 04:49 PM Post #114
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760	I do believe his rules also specified that if you buy only 4 magic points (so magic 5, essence 6) and get a datajack, you lose one of those magic points, EVEN if you have an essence point above your magic rating. Sphynx has offered me the chance to do the 'final edit' which I'll probably do next week. At that point I will also make sure the language is clear that, when you have power points and magic points, essence loss reduces magic points FIRST (so keeping it in line with the current Magical Adept rules) unless Sphynx would like the system to be more flexible. Pendaric - I remember you showing these drones off before (and Kage gave them good reviews, I seem to recollect). Some quick points... The Watcher needs the "add-ons" section. You mention an auto-injector in the description, but not in the numbers area. What is the difference between the Elite Halo drone and the non-Elite? (Aside from price, in case you're a smart ass :P) I feel like the Arrow would need a lower Handling rating, due to its small size and high speed (in fact, I imagine it would be very difficult to control and can almost imagine it having to make crash tests periodically because of how easily knocked around it would be) and a lower signature (since it's a super-fast, running hot UAV). Also, it's a UAV, not a UVA. I had to look that up because you had me totally baffled. All of these needs availability numbers. I would also consider bumping up the SI a notch or two, since they seem like relatively new technology for the most part, and I imagine it takes time for new tech to trickle down to the streets. Have you used these in games? How effective have they been? I would complain that they may be unbalancing, but honestly they couldn't be any more unbalancing than watchers are :P To use spoiler tags, put the word "spoiler" between square brackets [] . Then close with /spoiler (in square brackets). [ s poiler] blah [ / sp oiler ] without the spaces

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 7 2007, 06:46 PM Post #115
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	Thanks, updated the post. :) Left the arrow's handleing as is due to the cost change, reduced the sig.

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 06:39 PM Post #116
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	Added another micro drone from the parent thread. I'd hate to just put everything I have done so far but would a new decker utility that targets hard ware be interesting?

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 07:48 PM Post #117
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	Send a PM to mfb about that, until I finish the magic and wireless chapter, the decking stuff and ideas are his. I'm not crazy about a utility (software) being able to attack hardware, but considering that's kinda what Black Ice is doing, there is precedence for it.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 07:53 PM Post #118
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Black IC attacks meat. It's Grey IC that goes after hardware. ~J

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 09:56 PM Post #119
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	Technically black ic does take a shot at the deck just like supped up grey ic, its a whole world of fun.

Sir_Psycho View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 11:00 PM Post #120
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361	Didn't some-one have a "burn" utility, that crashes the hardware system that the node/slave is running on?

Pendaric View Member Profile	Feb 8 2007, 11:45 PM Post #121
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047	Check Mfb stuff its in there.

nezumi View Member Profile	Feb 12 2007, 10:09 PM Post #122
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760	I wrote up an equipment list, bringing over CP2020 stuff (probably about 5-10% of the 4 chrome books, since I'm excluding everything that's overpowered, redundant, or irrelevant). I believe that everything I brought over, with one exception which is noted as such, would plug into an SR3 or SR3R game without causing any game unbalance. Unfortunately, my document is around 27 pages long. I'm posting it bit by bit here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16544 I would love to be able to post the entire rtf file to a web site somewhere, and may make a yahoo page or something to do so. All of the equipment I brought over is open to modification and I hope much of it will be brought over to SOTA65, all we'll need to do is determine what is appropriate and what isn't. I don't mind (and would actually encourage) redundant postings. (I'm double posting this at the SR3R backporting equipment thread too.)

Sphynx View Member Profile	Feb 13 2007, 07:02 AM Post #123
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437	I would love to add an Equipment chapter to the book, but how long is the whole list? Ie: is it enough to get its own book or to play a major segment of a book (meaning it should wait til 2066)? Regardless, even if it's too long, I'd like some of it to make its way into 2065 so that we have an equipment list, it would stack well with the MicroDrones Pendaric has slotted us. Any weapons/armours included (since those are the primary balance-issue items)?

nezumi View Member Profile	Feb 13 2007, 03:12 PM Post #124
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760	Three weapons, which have already been posted, five pieces of armor, 6 additional pieces of 'wearable' equipment. I hope to finish editing the document today and I'll send it to you. Like I've said, you're welcome to take as much or as little as you'd like. It's 27 pages in Arial 12 font, so it would probably dominate the book as it stands now. Most of it is cyber, especially cosmetic cyber and unusual cyberhands.

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