[SR3] SOTA: 2065 Options

[nezumi]

Something I was considering...

CP2020 (and really, most other cyberpunk games) have external frames or power armor. At the lowest level, this is just an aluminum frame the person wears, outfitted with gyros and motors to help lift objects he otherwise wouldn't be able to move (we've seen this IRL with the walker leg supports they made for army troops a few years back). At the upper level, it's 9 feet of hardened vehicle armor that fills in the role between troop and vehicles.

I was considering this last night and thought I'd be willing to make up rules for it. The problem is neither SR3 or SR4 (officially) has them, so obviously it would be moving well outside of established canon.

Would you like me to write up a few pages on this? Or is it better nixed?

[Jrayjoker]

[Kagetenshi]

This is the internet. You can say "orgasm" here.

~J

[Sphynx]

Hmmm, Power Armour. I'm completely ok with the idea, but it should be written in a manner that discourages it for "shadowruns". Ie: No stealth rolls while wearing it, base TN of 4 to detect you if you're trying to be stealthy.

It doesn't go against Shadowrun concepts, but is something you expect the resistance to wear, not the runners. Also, I think it should be clearly stated that the Strength bonus is for lifting only, and treat it as Bone Lacing for using in Close Combat. However, those are just ideas and opinions. It doesn't have to be written like that for me to add it, those are just how I'd do it.

[Kagetenshi]

IMO it's a bad idea to have a "no stealth rolls while wearing" rule. Just give it appropriate negative modifiers to stealth tests (or bonuses to perception tests to detect, as desired).

~J

[Sphynx]

Except Stealth is Open Ended. Maybe put a Threshold on the Open Ended test... Ie: You need to exceed the Perception test with more than 1 of your rolls....

[nezumi]

I was considering this. There would be several factors that come into play:

The external frame and power armor would decrease your overall speed. This limits your maximum running speed as well as your initiative. A legs-only frame only effects your running speed. This would not have any effect on astral or matrix initiative, obviously.

The larger frames and power suits would make noise. While the character can still be stealthy, anyone around them has to make a roll against a flat TN to hear the suit. So yeah, he might not be able to find you, but the constant "pffssshhhh pfffsshhhh" of pneumatics as you move tells him someone is there.

Much like the gyro suit, both frames give penalties in melee combat and to certain tests (like escape artist and athletics). Of course, if you're in a power armor suit, you're generally not especially worried about someone hitting you with a club. It's got vehicle armor.

All of these will have very high availability and cost. They're basically meant only for the military to tote around very heavy weapons. The external frames might possibly be available for cargo loading, but the only real advantage they'd have for a runner is they can carry out more loot and perhaps gyro-stabilization. It would largely only apply strength bonuses to non-melee strength tests (and we all know how many of those there are). So they'd be useful in some cases, but they wouldn't be uber, and it would help those people who feel there should be mech suits, but who would want to make them super powerful.

[Sir_Psycho]

Shouldn't they have a strength bonus? I want to crush some-one's face with piston-enhanced punches! Although obviously we don't want this to be crazy gundam style with rocket-boosters and such.

Actually, should we have rocket packs in SOTA65? That would b hilarious, and I'm sure they'd have the technology to make them work better than they do now, and be slightly more compact.

[Sphynx]

Sir_Psycho, that's the difference between Stun and Physical. ;)

Nezumi, sounds good.

[Sphynx]

BTW, for anyone doing art for the book, the page dimensions are the same as the books. This is a change from earlier where I started at 1024px wide.

Full pages are done 215mm wide, 280mm high, or 2539px x 3307px. Images should take that into consideration. Every page is written as a PSD so editting can be done later, and so it's easier to wrap words around non-square images without an inline setting. There are over 20 pages done on the book, pre-art. I imagine that number will get alot higher especially once we add art. Text is written in Francis font except for headers which are done in, I believe, Futura (I'll have to double check).

I never got comments from anyone on some of the ideas, primarily (my biggest concern since I don't want to seem to favor my favorite type of character) Psionicist. I assume there were no objections over the Magic BP since the core-thread had nothing but compliments from the days back when Doc Funkenstein started it. The Magic chapter is nearly completed.

I've opted to forego the Norse Magic idea, maybe next year in the 2066 edition. The Wireless stuff needs some serious discussion especially from a 'hacker' point of view. I think mjb has ironed out his Tracker/Logger idea for the Hackers chapter, just needs a clean writing. Advanced Character Generation with more Edges/Flaws and Half-Races/Metatypes wil be the next area I work on more seriously.

[Sphynx]

BTW, if you're still interested in leaving comments, I've posted up the psd's for the first few pages of the Psychic on my site:

Page 1
Page 2
Page 3

I won't promise that any comment suggested will be added, it's got to be in-theme and not anti-book (Ie: No comments about how gay psychic rules are :P), but I will do my best.

You think I should open a Comments thread for this? Or post here?

[nezumi]

I've begun doing some work, haven't finished. I plan on reviewing and adding a fourth suit, a purely industrial one like what we saw in the movie Aliens. As you can tell, even though they will be useful, none of them are really appropriate for Shadowruns. If you are using one, you probably are already using security armor and MMGs anyway, so it shouldn't seriously hurt your game.

[ Spoiler ]

Ares Packhorse ™ Linear Frame

The Ares Packhorse is the cutting edge in Linear Frame technology. Using a high-density aluminum frame wrapped around the user’s legs and operated through discrete servos and gyros, it can take the load off when carrying the heaviest pack through the thickest terrain. Its patented “Perpetual Motion” technology insures that battery recharging is never required, and it has been tested for the most extreme rugged conditions. Knowing the conditions troops sometimes find themselves in, it can synergize with the medium or large Ares Rucksack, creating a convenient upright stretcher and head brace, to allow for easy medical transport when vehicles are not available.

Game Information:
This device adds +2 to the user’s strength for the purposes of calculating encumbrance only. While worn, the user’s maximum quickness for the purpose of running is capped at 4. This is not compatible with Kid Stealth legs or cyberskates. The device can be disabled with a Complex Action by removing a pin in each knee. This removes all benefits and drawbacks of the Packhorse.

Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Packhorse Linear Frame 12 12/2 weeks $40,000 3 5-W


>>>>>[That perpetual motion thing is crap. It’s just a free-hanging weight on a dynamo. Generates power from your movement. They used to put those sorts of things in watches. Not enough power to light a night light constantly, although I guess this is a bit more passive than that.]<<<<<
-

>>>>>[Not real useful if you ask me. Alright, now you can carry out a few thousand more nuyen in gear to sell, but that’s no good if you can’t run to the door when things get hot.]<<<<<

>>>>>[Maybe not useful in your line of biz. Try trekking a month’s worth of food on your back through the middle of Amazonia. Thing pays for itself in chiropractor bills alone then.]<<<<<



Ares Samson™ Linear Frame

Ares continues to outperform the competition with its Samson™ full body linear frame. This rigid exoskeleton contains all the strength of a troll without the attitude. In addition to the increased load-bearing ability of the user, it is outfitted to serve as a gyro stabilization unit for any standard firearm, and comes pre-equipped for Smartlink users (compatible with Smartlink 1, Smartlink 2 and Smartgoggles systems). Unlike conventional gyro stabilization, this frame interacts with the wearer via his datajack, allowing it to move comfortably with him like a second skin, eliminating the unfortunate restrictions of conventional gyro mounts. It comes with Ares’ patented “Perpetual Motion” technology, as well as a backup battery. The Samson linear frame turns even the weakest member of the squad into a hero.

Game information:
This device adds +3 to the user’s strength for all purposes, including determining the size of weapon a character may wield and melee damage. It reduces quickness to a maximum of 4 for determining running speed, and takes 4 combat turns to remove or disable. It offers 6 points of recoil compensation, and has a built in Smartlink connection and goggles. While worn, it confers a +1 to all target numbers in melee combat and reduces combat pool by one quarter. If the user connects to the device using anything less than a datajack, the penalty is +2 to all target numbers in melee combat and combat pool is reduced by one half. Unlike the Packhorse, this unit uses pneumatics. Anyone in the area may make a Perception test with a base target number of 6 to hear the linear frame in use while the user is moving. It counts as 1/1 armor, but can be comfortably worn over any non-security armor.

Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Samson Linear Frame 19 16/1 month $60,000 4 3-W


>>>>>[Awesome! Finally I can crush the heads of my enemies without blowing all my nuyen on cyberlimbs!]<<<<<

>>>>>[Think again. You gotta catch ‘em first, remember? Sure, it’s great at what it’s made to do, but you’re going to be slow and loud while doing it. I don’t think toting an MMG around is worth it when you can’t hide and can’t run.]<<<<<

>>>>>[This stuff is made mostly for things like anti-tank units and small anti-personnel gun nests. They cart around a lot of heavy gear into odd spots, then sit there for hours. This lets them change positions quickly and deal with the recoil when they get there.]<<<<<

Ares Goliath™ External Power Frame

The Goliath™ is the ultimate in infantry technology. In the bridge between men and vehicles stands Goliath. Goliath is a fully encasing external power frame, impervious to most small arms fire, but small enough to evade anti-vehicular weapons. It has the versatility of a man, but the strength of a tank. It sports all the tools the modern troop has come to see as necessary, in addition to the tremendous boost in strength and armor and the built-in heavy weapons mounts. Whether clearing rooms or transporting heavy weapons, Goliath puts the power in your hands.

Game information:
The driver may engage in most activities he would normally be able to do with his hands, at a +4 penalty due to the ungainliness of the oversized hands. In addition to this penalty, he cannot use his combat pool for any purpose except firing firearms mounted on his suit. He has an effective strength of 10. Goliath does not stack with any other form of armor. The Goliath has enough battery power to operate constantly for 4 hours. During this time, entering Goliath takes 5 minutes (or rushed in 15 Complex Actions). Leaving takes 2 minutes (or 5 Complex Actions). Once the battery has run down, leaving takes 10 minutes (or 20 Complex Actions). It adds one meter to the user’s height and weighs approximately 1,500 kilograms. This vehicle is only available for human-sized drivers.

Hand. Speed Accel Body Armor Sig Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo
Goliath 4/4 10 4 2 5 4 0 - 2 1

Load Seating SI Avail Cost
20 1 4 16/6 months $250,000

Goliath has a Gas enviroseal and enough air for four man-hours. It has one smartlink-equipped hardpoint and rigger and datajack adaptations, but comes with no conventional controls.

>>>>>[Holy drek… Am I dreaming?]<<<<<

>>>>>[You wish. Sure, it looks nice now, but admit it, there’s no way you’ll ever get a chance to use it, and there’s always that chance that your target might. Trust me, this thing is bad news. If the closest you get to this is seeing it on the trid, you’ve still gotten too close.]<<<<<

>>>>>[Eh… It doesn’t fly, so stairs will stop it just like they stop every other ground vehicle.]<<<<<<

>>>>>[Think again. Unless the stairs break, it can keep following you until the battery runs out. You think you’re up to dodging auto-cannon fire for four hours? Because I’m sure not.]<<<<<

Thoughts? I'll leave the Shadowtalk names and formatting to some other poor fool :P

[Sphynx]

Initially, every thing seems cool. Gimme 24 hours to mull over it though.

[nezumi]

I've finished my fourth frame. Unfortunately, it's taken a lot more space to write out than I hoped (the previous three were one page each). This, of course, is the first draft. I'm going to put them all away and read over them again next week to straighten them out, but I'd like to hear your comments first.

[ Spoiler ]

Ares Mule™ Construction Frame

The Mule™ is the multi-purpose work horse for any industry that requires the ability to engage in heavy labor with delicate precision. Whether the job is to drill through a meter of plasticrete within two millimeters of precision, or to carefully maneuver a 500 kilogram crate onto the top shelf, the Mule can do it all quickly and easily, without the need for additional vehicles. The Mule boasts an 800 kilo reinforced steel frame with oversized limbs to house the strongest pneumatics on the market. The hands are modularized, to allow a single Mule to be quickly and easily reconfigured for any of a dozen activities. Its straight-forward design layout allows most jobs to be accomplished with a minimum of training. If it needs to be done right, it needs a Mule.

Game information:
The mule is an entire exoskeleton, standing eight-feet tall. Aside from steel plates around the torso and head of the operator, most of the interior is exposed, providing only +2/2 armor. This acts like a shield for the purpose of armor calculations, and the operator can use other armor. It takes one combat turn to enter or leave the Mule, and one turn to pull on or remove the harness. While wearing the harness, the operator will not fall out of the Mule, however combat pool is reduced by half. The Mule’s maximum speed is 8 meters per turn. Because the operator’s arms are free and due to his height advantage, he suffers no penalties to melee combat, but is very vulnerable to flanking. The Mule is only useful for melee combat if the target is between one meter and four meters and in front or to the side of the frame, at which point the operator may attempt to engage the target using appropriate skills. It is not nimble enough to use ranged weapons of any sort. Hands take fifteen minutes to replace, and must be done by (metahuman) hand.

The Mule has a selection of modular hands and other upgrades, some of which are listed here. While basic actions can be achieved without significant ability, many require the use of the Robotic Arm skill. The frame does not come with a datajack interface, although one can be added using the standard vehicle rules. The Mule cannot be used by dwarves or trolls, or any metatypes outside of the normal human proportions. The Mule cannot use stealth, and its signature is 4. It has an effective Strength of 14.


Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Mule Construction Frame 800 6/1 month $60,000 3 Legal
Standard hands 40 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal
Pincer 50 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal
Drill 30 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal
Torch 60 6/2 weeks $7,000 2 Legal
Magnetic anchors (hands and feet) 20 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal

Standard hands – these are three fingered hands made for most tasks. It comes by default with the frame. They allow for most actions require some degree of dexterity, using the Robotic Arm or Quickness test. Target numbers should be assigned appropriately. Picking up a 1 meter squared box requires a TN of 2 test. Picking up a person would be a TN based on the person’s quickness. Picking up a firearm would be a TN of 6. Anything much smaller would be impossible. Feedback to the controllers keeps the operator from accidentally crushing an item, although it may not respond quickly enough for especially delicate items. Should the operator try to crush something, the hands have an effective strength of 8 (causing 8M damage each round).

Pincer hands – these are designed for larger, heavier objects. They open wider than the standard hands and are stronger, they lack the dexterity. Add a +2 to all target numbers for successfully grasping an item. They have an effective strength of 12, (causing 12S damage each round).

Drill – this is a laser guided, dikoted drill designed for precisely drilling through the most difficult substance that takes a single hand slot. It is approximately five feet long. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes. It requires a Quickness(4) test to accurately and causes 14M damage per round (barrier and armor ratings halved).

Torch – this is a laser welding torch. Using carefully adjusted lenses, it has an effective range of only one meter, beyond that the calibrated laser beams are too weak to cause more than 8L damage. However, at the point of convergence, the torch causes 12S damage. Using it requires a Quickness(8) test against a moving target, 4 against a stationary target. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes.

Magnetic Anchors – These are a set of powerful electro-magnets that allow the Mule to magnetically stick to anything magnetic and strong enough to hold it. It requires two points of contact to keep from falling off (traveling requires “knuckling” to maintain the maximum points of contact). When turned on, it sounds an alarm and waits one minute before activating. Once activated, any metallic objects loose in the area are magnetically brought to and stuck against a foot or hand of the Mule. It requires an Strength(6) test to avoid losing an object in hand, and Strength(10) test to remove one already stuck on the magnet.

[Pendaric]

I have a concept matrix local that I use in my game. It's orginal ish but not exactly a sota piece as it is a matrix 'place'. Would you be interested?

[Sphynx]

I really like the Mule. Useful for coming in from under. Might consider adding in a limited scuba option to the Mule (working from underwater), which would, of course, require Scuba rolls. Is your wife working on schematic drawings for these?

Pendaric: I'll look at anything of course, if it's laid out in a professional manner.

[Sir_Psycho]

[nezumi]

[Pendaric]

Two things I posted previously:
link
meta magic technique

[Sphynx]

Pendaric, I'd be interested in adding both. I think they're both good ideas, tomorrow when I have more time I'll address each one in their own thread. Assuming we agree for the most part on everything, all i need is your permission to put them in the book.

[nezumi]

[nezumi]

I read over the wireless bit.

First note, don't forget to use spell check. There are a few minor misspellings that need to be tidied up. Secondly, I'd avoid the word "you" as well as the reference to "modern ipod players". None of the other source books use language like that, and I think we can benefit from holding ourselves to that standard of quality.

I'd consider splitting this up more. Generally the Game Information section refers to mechanics, and follows the colorful blurb. I don't see any reason to break this tradition. If you can write a page or two about living in the wireless world first, giving us a view of the devices and how they work, then half a page of Game Information, this will be more in-line with current books. Game information should be precise, using clear numbers for an objects weight and dimensions, as well as its price, upload speed, ACIFS rating, etc. It may be worth checking out the description of the Dataterm section of the Sprawl Survival Guide, where they write out all the functions of the trid and all the ways it can be used. They don't list the cost and dimensions for obvious reasons, but cover all the other information I'd care to know about it.

Because you're using wireless stuff, you'll need to specify where wireless technology is implemented, what kind of things it is generally used for, how the user interacts with it, and how quickly it moves. *I* understand what you're writing out because I've read SR4, but we need to write for new users who won't.

[nezumi]

Just so people are aware, as a GM, I do not go to the SOTA books for more powerful items for already powerful character types, nor do I go there looking for ways to make the existing ruleset simpler or more complex. The former I don't want at all because it unbalances stuff, the latter I'll look to rulebooks for (like the appropriate weapons or magic book, or SR3R). SOTA, for me, is valuable because it expands Shadowrun into areas it lacks. SOTA63 went into merc equipment, 64 went into spy equipment. So as a GM, when I come to this project, some of these ideas really excite me and some don't. Pentara's (sorry for misspelling that, if I did) new metamagic and watcher ball is very neat. It doesn't make the characters much more powerful, but it's colorful and fun. Sir Psycho's thoughts on cigs I really liked because I've always really wondered what's happened to tobacco. I hope he hasn't thought the lack of response means lack of interest. I'm waiting! Expanding the psionic rules desperately needs to be done.

I definitely feel like we need to focus on grabbing stuff that expands Shadowrun outwards, not upwards. Astral art, tobacco products, race wars and telepathy push outwards. It seems like much of the focus so far has been on magic. Could someone look more at things to help counter magical threats as well? The watcher ball I'd group in there, but are there any groups which have specialized in being anti-magic "assets"? Any new ground taken in bringing magical ability into modern technology (like with the astral camera we saw last year?) Any progress in making passive defenses stronger? We don't want to just boost magical options without boosting counter-magical options as well.

Overall though, I hope I've explained why I'll be very hesitant about some ideas and very supportive of others. The magic creation system, at it's core, I like. I have always wanted to be able to put 5BPs towards it then awaken during game play. But I don't feel like it belongs in a SOTA book. Don't throw it away, it's definitely of value! But consider whether a SOTA book is where you'd put it.

[Sphynx]

[Sphynx]

Sorry for the double post, noticed I forgot to answer this question: