How much are your runs worth? Options

[cetiah]

I'm getting all kinds of conflicting data on how much Mr Johnson should pay for a run. The GM's screen included missions as low as a couple thousand, and yet in other places, 10,000 nuyen is dropped on the table just to start with. Do you think players should bother with runs that pay a measly 1,000 nuyen? I've got a system that will work well for my games, I think, but I'm curious how everyone else's games are going.

What are payment values like in your games?

[HappyDaze]

May the pay scale high and expenses even higher. Make runners regularly buy new IDs, weapons, vehicles, etc. but give them the money to do it. If you don't make the runs pay well, stealing cars looks far more profitable (even a basic car can get you 4,000 :nuyen: for an easy night's work) and safe than shadowrunning.

[Strobe]

It is really about what kind of work the runners are doing. Sorting out some bad employees by ruffing them up at a bar isn't hard and doesn't require specialist skills so you wouldn't get much for it. B&E into an almost unguarded warehouse, also low end stuff. When they hire you to extract an unwilling scientist from a top-secret military research lab? That is a whole different story.

I agree with Mr. Daze that runners should have expensive… er… running costs. New ID, new guns (so you don't get traced by the law through your firearms), new houses, luxury items (like food) all add up. Also paying off all the people you might need to in a run can cost quite a bit. Sure you might get 10,000 but then spend half of it buying information, schematics and bribes. Makes the 10,000 not quite get into your pocket.

-Strobe

[Charon]

Personnally, I start with standard fees for a mission at 5,000 :nuyen: / runner when the campaign starts.

Assuming the runner make a good impression on their first Johnsons, they get their shot at a 10-15K mission soon enough.

After 10 or 12 run of good work on their part, a standard fee is about 10,000 / runner for something standard and as much as 50k / runner (for a complex and tough mission taking 2 or 3 session to complete).

As their reputation increase, standard fee will slowly raise too.

Shoddy work (Mission failures, or messy "success" that creates more trouble for the employer than it solves) tank their fee back into begginners level.

---

Yeah, I saw some of those fees in the GM's screen leaflet.

Some are ridiculous. For example, getting rid of the murder weapon is only common sense after wetwork, right? Well, not if your pistol is worth 50% of your mission fee, it isn't!

[hyzmarca]

Pay scale depends on difficulty, risk, and time required. 25-100 :nuyen: is perfectly reasonable for helping a littly old lady across the street in Redmond. (You'll probably have to kill a couple of gangers but otherwise quick, easy, and safe).
Killing Angela Colloton requires pay in the hundreds of thousands of nuyen. (Easy to accomplish nearly impossible to get away with.)
Killing Lofwyr should start in the tens of millions. (Both nearly impossible to do and nearly impossible to get away with.)
Mercenary work in South America or a run against a major corp facility would be in the tens of thousands.

[Charon]

[HappyDaze]

The runners in my last group accepted nothing lss than 250 :nuyen: per hour per runner. Typically, hiring the full team of four for a three day deal cost 96,000 :nuyen: - often rounded up to a nice 100,000 :nuyen:. This typically included time for legwork and such. If the Johnson was stingy, then they better have everything ready to go (info, necessary special gear, etc.).

Expenses were very high with new armor and weapons purchased for every run. This was SR3, so there was no need for commlinks, but in SR4 those get replaced too. By the time everything was over, each runner could typically expect to make about 6,000 :nuyen: profit from a 3-day run. The group lived high lifestyle and pulled about 2 runs a month. It stayed pretty balanced overall.

[hyzmarca]

The biggest advantage of helping old ladies across the street in the Redmond barrens (where one is at constant threat from gang attack) is that you can do this about 100 times a day for 1 karma each run (10 old ladies an hour for 10 hours). Within a week the non awakened characters will have enough karma to max out everything and the Awakened characters will have several grades of initiation.
Remember, runners aren't just getting money. They're getting karma, too. Karma is often far more useful than cash.

[SL James]

What if you're helping them across the street into a ghoul's den?

Ironically, when I ran my campaign that effectively retired some pretty serious talent, it was after they made their Fuck You Money that they really earned it by doing some incredibly dangerous, but incredibly karma-worthy stuff. That was the greatest campaign I will ever (have) GM(ed).

[Charon]

[Strobe]

[Kesslan]

Well the thing to keep in mind about Johnsons is this. Not every J will pay as much for a team for the exact same kind of job as the next.

Johnson A:
He's a corp man. He's given a budget, and a time frame. He gets paid the same ammount, no matter what happens. He might get a small bonus if he pays the runner team abit less (they take his inital offer) but if they bargain him up abit on the fee. It's not a big enough loss of cred for him to really care.

Johnson B:
He's also a corp man. But unlike Johnson A, Johnson B is on a comission basis. His pay is directly proportionate to a percentage of the pay for the whole job + what ever he can screw the runners out of. He'll be very hard to bargain with. And might very well be far more inclined to say screw it and go to another team if the runners want more than X ammount.

Johnson C:
He's an independant. He could be like Johnson A or Johnson B. However, he's alot more likely to play favourites, and alot less likely to chomp at the bit for every last yen. Because if the run fails. It makes him look really bad. And.. we cant have that now can we? Of course if he pays more than he initially offers, he damn well expects better results.

The thing is, ultimately not every J is the same. They too are people, they too get paid different ways. As a whole Js who dont get the job done, usually dont live too long because daddy corp doesnt like constant failure. Some, wont put up with any failure at all. Most will however be abit more leniant. The odd screw up/failure is ok so long as it wasnt -too- big. Also keep in mind, some corps/johnsons are inherently racist. They may be professionals, and try to act like such, but their motives can be influenced by their own personal beliefs, not just that of their parent corp. For example, that Renraku J might actually like metas, and pay a party of mostly metas abit more than usual to 'help them out'.

[Thane36425]

[Moto42 Again]

Where are you reading these stories of real-life merc missions that go into such detail?

[Thane36425]

[Fortune]

[Yoan]

More 'high powered' ideas;

20-40 day Mercenary contract in Central America (keep in mind I have no idea how much this pays in real life)
70,000 to 90,000 per head
Probably attached to a 'specialist' batallion/etc... not 'grunt' work, yet not superb pay by any means, but the employer isn't looking for superman, just people who have specific skills at an adequate level, ie: recon, or technical skills, engineers, forward-combat groups, etc... .
Think of the Karma you'll rack up in a month. ;)

Extraction or acquisition from a fairly large corp
30,000 to 70,000 per head (and up, up, up!)
We're not talking the six chromed towers of Mitsuhama, but a medium-sized office building or facility of a large (AAA) corp. Can be done within a two to three weeks period.

Of course, it depends WHAT is to be 'acquired': I can imagine it taking up to a month or two and pay totalling half a million, and it can likewise also be scaled down...

My favourite are "mid-powered" "runs", that PCs are more or less forced into (forcing is a bad word, but...) due to circumstances.
Look at the SNES game (even if I hated it's game system): when do you do a "run"? You don't: you're developing the storyline. Most of mine involve organized crime, mid-level corp machinations or personal trauma/motivations, etc...

I always/usually start campaigns fairly low level, though, pay usually below 20k but rarely below 8-10k.

[sunnyside]

Just for the record according to CNN those private security guys (remeber those guys that got burned in Falluja?) in Iraq make $350 a day to $1,500 a day. I'd say shadowrunners should be at the high end of that for that sort of work. And it only makes sense to pay them more if they're REALLY getting into the thick of things like the Marines are.

[Yoan]

[Butterblume]

Now I have to do 'helping the old lady across the street run' to my players. For perhaps 30k each, just to see the looks on their faces :D.

Of course, it's a specific street (the one in front of the courthouse), the lady needs to cross the street at a specific time (about 5 minutes before a really big trial), and the Johnson has no idea where she is.
This would probably alleviate fears of a setup, so I need to squeeze one in. Perhaps if the Johnson has her assassinated in front of cameras and the courthouse...

[Charon]

[Thane36425]

[Masterofthegame]

Here is the table I use. It's just a guideline really, but it gives my players an idea what to expect.

Reputation (Street Cred - Notoriety) Standing Effect
0 or less Initiate Low-paying, low-priority jobs (3,000Y or less on average).
1 to 2 Adept Moderate income, better jobs (3,000Y to 5,000Y for an average job).
3 to 9 Professional Good income, specialized jobs, favored employers (5,000Y to 10,000Y per job).
10 to 29 Specialist or Expert Excellent pay, high priority missions (10,000Y to 25,000Y per job).
30 to 49 Elite Extraordinary pay, prestigious jobs(25,000Y to 50,000Y per job).
50+ Prime Runner Name your price, choice jobs, choice of employers (50,000Y+ per job).
Notoriety
0 to 2 Reliable Considered trustworthy. Most jobs from known, reliable sources can be trusted and will expect favorable outcomes.
3 to 5 Caution Employers may not trust you with important jobs, nor will they always inform you of all the details.
6 to 8 Dangerous Employers consider you unreliable and risky investments. Jobs assigned will be considered too dangerous to risk other, more reliable assets. Many assignments may be one-way or borderline suicidal.
9+ Black Listed At best, no one will knowingly work with you. At worst, you may be actively hunted by your peers.

[Wakshaani]

Lifestyle remains teh best measuring stick.

Rookie runners or those who aren't established will generally keep a Low lifestyle, thus, they need to clear about 2000Y a month, plus ammo costs and bribes. Tehy usually take about a run a week, since the planning isn't as big for small-time missions, and some try to squeeze in an extra here or there, to save up for something special.

Thus, a reasonable rate of pay would be 500Y per team member*, plus incentives for doing teh job well or picking up something on the side. An occasional windfall could drop in their lap from a particularly difficult or hot mission, which should pay them extra cash, since they'll likely have to lay low for a month or two for the heat to cool off.

The average professional, successful Shadowrunner lives at a Middle lifestyle, as noted in teh main book. This means that they bring in about 5000Y a month, but usually manage only two, or even one, run a month, due to far longer lead times and a more dangerous mission type. Some instead do several "Journeyman" missions, but, by and large, 1-2 runs a month is the standard at this level. Extra money, again, goes to bribes and expendable assets (Ammo, medikits, binding materials, etc), and probably a bit more gets tucked away for investing in upgrades down the line ... negotiation skills are *vital*, here, and many runners take a split in pay and gear, to chip in for one another. (Well, if we accept the normal rate, we'll clear 5000Y a head. OR, we can make 4000Y each and get 2000Y in gear ... and Frank really needs that new set of Smartlink Goggles...)

Most runners never get past this level, by teh by. (Heck, most never get past low, but those who survive for a few years pretty much all make it to this level. It's a rare breed indeed that goes higher.)

Prime Runners hit teh High Lifestyle, having 10,000Y a month for livnig, getting real food, fancy cars, and so on. This is what everyone *wants*, and why they're willing to endure such a crappy time at the low end of teh scale ... most never get close to this, but for teh best of the best, life is good. Runners in this league routinely travel out of teh country for missions, and, more importantly, have bargaining power ... skills of their level are rare, so they can charge a high dollar fee. At best, these runners handle a run a month, but they charge so much that they can usually take 1-3 months off after a run, to recharge and re-group.

Then there's teh legends. They live teh life of Luxury. Just dream of it, chummer.



* Note that teh Wak encourages teams to be paid as teams, not individuals. Mr Johnson should say, "5000Y for the run," to the leader of teh group/negotiator, "Split it up however you want." This helps them in several ways ... for one, it makes the leader divie up the assets and make financial calls, so that Johnson only has to deal with one voice. Johnson can also use this leverage, watching to see how teh group reacts ... do certain members want to haggle while others don't seem to care? If he hires the time again, might he suggest that the troublesome members not be taken along, thus making sur ethat teh rest "Get a bigger share" and letting him bargain more easily in teh future? It allows the team leader to send as many, or as few, people on the mission as he wishes... the Johnson isn't going to offer 2K a head, only to have an army of fifty turn out with their hands out, after all. Heck, a regular Johnson might even take teh party mouthpiece aside, to pass on some advice... here's my personal card, you ever want to move up, you just say teh word, leave the losers behind. They drafts Fixers from Faces, Johnsons from Fixers, and Johnson? he lives the high life.

[DragonWolf]

When you GMs decide on the fee, do you take into account any loot the Runners can fence?