 Old-school magical traditions., What were they like? |
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 Jan 17 2007, 02:04 AM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
I know that in SR3, the hermetic/shaman divide consisted of hermetics binding elementals exclusively and shamans being able to summon nature spirits that had more varied powers but were limited to domain.
What were the other magical traditions, like Wuxing and Voodoo like? |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:23 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Wuxing: five elemental spirit types and usually ancestor spirits. Spirits of the elements included sylphs (wind), salamanders (fire), gnomes (earth), undines (water) and manitous (wood). These spirits have much of the pure combat ability of elementals and a fair amount of the power variety of nature spirits. They are summoned with a slight variant of the nature spirit rules.
Voodoo: summon loa, loa cannot materialize, but can possess the conjurer or any other who has payed a small karma price to become a valid host. There are a variety of loa, and I'm not sure how to explain them other than swipe someone's copy of MitS for a while and check pages 102-105 to learn about the loa and zombies. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:28 AM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
They are the Lwa, the riders of the head. The houngan or mambo serves the Lwa, who they will call in a ritual. When the Lwa has been called, he or she will mount the houngan or mambo, and I don't mean that in the sexual sense. The Lwa will pursue its purpose and then dismount, leaving its steed to recover on its own.
~J |
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Jan 17 2007, 01:46 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
The biggest defining mark of Shamanic magic is the totem modifiers. Each totem has bonuses and disadvantages.
Eg. A Wolf Shaman with a sorcery of 6 casts Combat and Detection spells at effective ratings of 8, a similar bonus is added to their conjuring of a specific nature spirit, eg. Forest spirits. However, when a wolf shaman recieves damage, they must roll willpower to prevent from going "berserk". Other disadvantages include subtracted dice from certain spells and spirits. One of the most interesting things about Shamans was that they all had interesting characteristics for roleplaying purposes, and as long as they conducted their roleplaying in the specified way, they kept the favor of their totem. The elven "Paths of The Wheel" were an odd tradition that never quite got me into them. They were shaman-like, because they took certain advantages and disadvantages, but they were only really effective (yet cumulative) in a certain place, at a certain time of year, in a certain situation (eg. standing next to a fire or levitating or flying). Psionics were pretty hilarious, because they do not believe that they are Awakened, but basically believe they have x-men like psychokinetic powers :D I can't believe they got rid of the magical traditions in SR4. Mages always were "cool", but Shamans were much more fun and interesting from a role playing point of view. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:12 PM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Um ... they didn't! |
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Jan 17 2007, 05:25 PM
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#6
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Infact they have added far more traditions. They use the same basic rule set rather than having one each, but they are still there.
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Jan 17 2007, 06:11 PM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
And arguably, mages are a lot more powerful now. They can all summon AND bind.
Plus, all spirits have freaky side powers, not just nature spirits. |
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Jan 17 2007, 09:05 PM
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#8
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Maybe, I think the entire types of spirits available and how they are summoned is bigger. I like playing shamen most of the time, and usually forget to add in totem bonus dice. So that is why I would disagree.
Hold up, maybe that is just poorly written. It is like having a Spell Pool, Sorcery skill, or Conjuring skill modified by the totem modifier. Not the Force of the spell or spirit. |
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Jan 17 2007, 11:54 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Yeah I was trying to explain the extra dice to an SR4 player. I probably should have just said "+2 dice to combat and detection spells" rather than getting all fancy.
And hold up, what does the force have to do with it? I didn't mention force at all. The force is mainly dependant on your magic attribute, not your sorcery/conjuring skill roll. |
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Jan 18 2007, 12:12 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
"Ratings" is used in multiple places to indicate the level of a program/hardware item, but rarely in reference to skills. Its use here caused some doubt as to whether you meant the effective skill level or the effective force.
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Jan 18 2007, 12:14 AM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Really? I use rating or skill rating in regards to skills all the time. Sorry.
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Jan 18 2007, 02:54 AM
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#12
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
They just made them virtually indistinguishable and useless props. God forbid magic can only be practiced in one or two ways, and while you can try to shoehorn your religion into one of those ways, being a Wiccan doesn't override being a Hermetic Mage. But no... Goddamn pussies. Then again, extra traditions were first added by just the worst sourcebooks you can imagine (except for PR, which was only written by the two authors of one of those mental abortions). Adding religion to magic and making them interoperable was probably the second most stupid thing ever done in SR. |
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Jan 18 2007, 04:36 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 14-January 07 Member No.: 10,633 |
Actually, I think they were right to overhaul the magic system. The problem the old system had was lack of scalability. Basically, you were stuck with what you had.
A decker could be custom-made. A street sammy as well. Want an old school detective? Go right ahead. How about making a sociable rigger? But magician: you were stuck between the stereotypical bookworm scientist-mage and Tonto with super powers. |
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Jan 18 2007, 05:05 AM
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#14
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes. Magic worked two ways. It was a harsh, rigid, inflexible master. It made it clear who was right and who was wrong. That's the only decent thing they did with extra traditions, adding one that was explicitly wrong (but then gave it different abilities from the two true paths anyway).
But couldn't be used to jack into the netherweb, where everything operates on a giant version of token ring.
The customized street sam couldn't conjure gun spirits. A mage can choose different spells or emphasize on conjuring or spellcasting. A Shaman can do all that, and have a varying totem besides. Both of them can also do extra stuff on the side—they can even be more machine than man. There is no reasonable argument that magical characters were somehow uncustomizable. Also, while some of the totems did indicate a personality type for the character, no such guidance exists for hermeticism. You are no more "stuck" with being a bookworm than the decker is "stuck" with being a caffeine-addicted social outcast. ~J |
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Jan 18 2007, 06:44 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
And don't forget that hermetics can have mentor spirits (the equivalent of the old Totems) now, too, for those same dice bonuses. On the flip side, shamans can bind spirits too, now. The differences between hermetics and shamans are more cosmetic, in SR4. I kind of approve, though, since they are using the same magical forces, and they should follow the same basic rules. And over time, with things like Universal Magical Theory, you should see more blending of previously stratified traditions. The main differences now are in the Drain attribute used with Willpower, and the types of spirits that can be summoned. As far as the bookworm stereotype for hermetics, it is like the stereotype of trolls as tanks - you don't have to do them that way, but the rules make it the optimal path. In the case of hermetics, one of their Drain Attributes is Logic, which encourages them to take those academic and technical skills that also use Logic. Also, there are more traditions now. Things like chaos magic or wicca are separate magical traditions now (although I still would have liked to see the three-fold rule for wiccans -"I manabolt him for 6 damage!" "All right, resist 6 damage three times." :D) |
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Jan 18 2007, 06:53 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
edited- don't post when tired.
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Jan 18 2007, 01:19 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
If you have no creativity and adhere strictly to stereotypes. |
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Jan 18 2007, 07:24 PM
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#18
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Because that is accompanied by a Wiccan mage walking into a mall or a sports staduim and costing Orgy on several hundred people at once. |
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Jan 19 2007, 01:25 AM
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#19
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'll just echo what Kage said.
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Jan 19 2007, 01:51 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Do the SR4 rules threaten our supply of magical Native American hipsters?
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Jan 19 2007, 04:37 AM
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#21
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'm more concerned with the self-righteous wiccans.
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Jan 19 2007, 05:06 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Is there any other kind? |
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Jan 19 2007, 05:12 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Unfortunately, the unified magic rules mean that there is no mechanical advantage to being a Native American hippster except for the fact that they get to double-dip with their Charisma (and you could just make up a tradition that gets to do that). |
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Jan 19 2007, 05:57 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 14-January 07 Member No.: 10,633 |
Which is how it was designed. To be stereotypical. Yes, you could juxtapose things, but that is not the same as creativity. |
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Jan 19 2007, 08:12 AM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Funny. I've played dozens (very conservative estimate ;)) of awakened characters over the history of Shadowrun, and not once have I used either of the stereotypes you mention.
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