 Are your stories depressing?, Mine aren't. |
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 Jan 19 2007, 06:02 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 14-January 07 Member No.: 10,633  |
Damn! I hate it when I'm wrong. Even moreso when I am wrong because I misheard something on a DVD. But he was still fun to watch in that movie. |
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Jan 19 2007, 06:24 AM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
See everyone seems to have varying degrees of ideals of what 'grit' is etc. This is why personally, I try to find not only groups that more or less like my own versions of such. But also when GMing, I try to find out what the PCs really -want-. What do they -expect- out of a specific setting? I'll also try to test the limits to the poitn where it's like 'Dude thats totally overdoing it' or 'Man.. thats boring'.
That way you can find a good middleground that keeps pretty much everyone happy. So I mean you might find a group that likes. Pain! Death! Adverstity! Mom's on drugs! Oh look something *shiny!* pain! Death! Pain! Pain! Aversity! Your friend bob has been murdered! *REVENGE!* *somethign Shiny!* You get laid! You now have STD! Crap you cant afford the cure! *do some evil deeds!* now you can! Sweet! Have more sex with a hooker to celebrate! God damn those STDs are back! FUCK! |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:28 AM
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#53
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
Those STD are back ? I've only got 10 years to live ? That's fine with me, 10 years are enough.
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Jan 19 2007, 09:49 AM
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#54
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
I think Magic can be made gritty, hell we've got some pretty crazy magical threats like blood magic and insect spirits. Blood magic is scary in fairly obvious "ooh they do evil things" way. Insect Spirits are made scary if you don't operate them as "evil", but like insects; Odd (i mean fraggin' wierd), inhuman, blindly expansionist, they are scary in the same way an insect is when you look at them under a microscope, they're visually disgusting composites of insect invaders and brutally enslaved humans.
About the magically active being among us, like Cap Chaos said, some-one can road rage at you and throw a fireball at you. Magic puts powers in the hands of one in every 100 metahumans, it does not descriminate, it can be a tool in the hands of murderers, rapists, perverts (hello astral projection!), it doesn't just get bestowed upon the virtuous. For the magically active, life isn't so glamorous either. Your abilitys WILL make a whole lot of people afraid of you, it's hard to find those who understand you, let alone come to terms with your own powers. What happens when you get a magic related trouncing by some local gang members, "freak" burnt onto your lawn, and when you get so mad you retaliate, you're expelled from your school because you just gave some of your classmates 2nd degree burns. On the other hand, you are singled out for corporate service, even if you don't agree with what they do. You refuse? Oh hey, you just got fired from your job at the coffeehouse, and you don't know why. They keep on pestering you to join up. Your cat shows up dead. They show up at your door to ask you again. Your parents talk to you, they really need the money, they say it's your responsibility, and since everyone else is refusing to hire you, you sign up for the corps. Unethical Magical testing? Dangerous security/corp military work? Every time you cast a spell, you feel drain. While it's easy to describe as 'you're tired', it hurts, even if it's just stun damage. Every time you want to use an ability, you feel pain, mucle aches, bruises, cracked skin, blood noses, sore joints and maybe worse. And let's not mention physical drain. One mistake (IMO) I've noticed when GM's/Fiction writers describe Spirits is as too human. They speak, they help you out with favors, etc. Spirits aren't human, they don't make any sense, they can be summoned and bound through conjuring, but it doesn't make you their buddies. You have to live with that you're Awakened, and therefore more exposed to spirits, you could cut a shortcut through the local tip on your way to work and have the skin boiled off your bones. Not to mention any spirits you may come across through Astral travel. Speaking of Astral Travel, shit, that's scary as it is. It's like going swimming, if you're smart, and a strong swimmer, you'll probably be fine, but go too far, or too deep, you might never make it back again. And some-one else described how crazy the metaplanes are. And let's not forget the one phrase, that is the worst thing about being awakened: "Geek the mage first!" |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:50 AM
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#55
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I knew a girl who's mother was on drugs, once. She had a real hard life. One of he mothers boyfriends raped her repeatedly, she started cutting herself to escape the pain but eventually had enough and ran away. So had no job skills and was living on the streets when a pimp found her and seduced her into a life of prostitution. She started taking drugs to numb the pain, first crack and then heroin. Then, she started getting sick. She got HIV from a John or a needle, she doesn't know which, and ended up with full blown aids. She tried to kill herself by hanging but the shower curtain rod broke under her weight and she ended up stuck in a hospital bed paralyzed from the neck down.
And then she was beamed up to the Enterprise-D, which had traveled back in time on a mission to rescue an endangered monkey so that it could tell his space-monkey cousins to not blow up Earth, due to a transporter error. Since she was going to die that night anyway they took her with them. 24th century medical technology was able to cure her aids, repair her spine, and detox her instantly. This was very fortuitous because as soon as she recovered she had to save the Enterprise from evil Romulans and she was the only one who could do because somehow everyone else became too stupid to think of the simplest and most obvious solution to their predicament. The bridge crew was so grateful for her quick thinking that they immediately stripped off all of their clothes and she had a 5-way with Troi, Piccard, Riker, and Data. Her name was Mary Sue |
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Jan 19 2007, 10:14 AM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
LOL hyzmarca.
Yeah. This is why I dont allways let runners have a way to 'fix' hardships. But you know ultimately most PC runners to one degree or another fall under that 'Mary Sue' umbrella somewhere. Hmm this speak of spirits makes me want to introduce some time a character based on Gabriel from the movie Constantine. Where she/he/it? Goes abit psycho and decides to unleash hell on earth because 'humans only really shine through adversity!'. And then when, instead of killing her Constantine punches her in the face she congradulates him for 'choosing the higher path'. Think about a spirit based off that concept? :vegm: Might be abit fun anyway. Or hell maybe not even a spirit but some rich crazy guy. |
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Jan 19 2007, 04:03 PM
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#57
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Target Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 16-December 06 From: Kabul, Afg. Member No.: 10,381 |
Hey nezumi... when you start the hardcore cybergame let me know I'm all in on that. I do tend to run towards simulating life and loss a little more in an SR. to each his own.
For magic ruining you life... I've just started a game on DS (Fade to Blood) where we're running the intro stories for HOW a group of people start running. The char I'm running is a priest who's awakened but doesn't know it. I can't go into too much detail, but it's already screwing with his worldview and how other people percieve him. I think there's hints of this type of thing in the fluff, but is really up to us to flesh out the 'cost' of magic. It's reality and mind altering stuff the affects can't be easiliy 'quantified' like essence loss and nuyen outlay of cyberware. Unless somebody with a whole lot more time and SR magic Guru-ness (Ancient History comes to mind) lays out some sort of system of "soul loss" to mana.. it's going to be more of a personal role play affect on a magical character. parting shot, "Grit is: when Shit Happens, the runner rolls it, smokes it, and shoots the fucker shoveling it at him." or tries to struggle is where story happens 8) |
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Jan 19 2007, 04:08 PM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
toxic guidance spirit? :)
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Jan 19 2007, 06:28 PM
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#59
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Psycho, I feel like a good metaphor for what you're saying is to compare magic to a gun. Some bad people have guns. Sometimes when you have a gun, people more powerful than you make you do bad things with it. Sometimes people fear you because you have a gun, or they don't understand why you'd want to keep the gun. Maintaining the gun means you talk with some weird folks, gun nuts and military veterans, who just don't think like normal civilians.
But ultimately, my response would have to be, you have a gun! Sure, people might not like it if you show it to them, but you have a gun and you got it for free. Cyberware would be like if you cut off your right hand to get a gun. You can't hide it (easily), and you made a clear sacrifice. Sure, having magic might be tough at times, but it's a lot nicer than not having magic. Erros - since I've never played in or run a game like that, I wouldn't know quite where to start! But I'll keep in mind that I"m not alone in wanting to see one. |
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Jan 19 2007, 06:47 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
A lot of my stories are bounty hunting types. That can be ghouls in any number of cities, juggernauts in the deep south, Wyverns harassing cattle ranches, or the special trip toe Amazonia to hunt some of the few bounties there. And of course there are toxics and bugs to hunt as well. That can be kind of depressing, espcially the ghouls and bugs: their nests being dreadful places.
I try to keep actual Shadowruns rather neutral, but that depends on how the characters act. Slaughtering a lot of guards gets a story on the news about it, complete with tearful family members and all that. Makes things hot for them for a while. I'll admit I've wiped out really bloodthirsty teams too, but then that's what happens if you go around killing everyone during a run. Too many people come gunning for you. Kill a bunch of gangers and you'd probably get a medal, but killing citizens, that's another matter. I'll agree though that there is a strong dystopian view in the game. In many published adventures, the astral environment in most corporate areas is described as feeling dead or depressed, beaten down. This is especially true in the worker's areas and homes. It must really suck being a mage doing astral recon in places like that. |
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Jan 19 2007, 07:42 PM
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#61
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Does slaughtering ghouls get a tearful news story with their friends and family members?
~J |
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Jan 19 2007, 08:41 PM
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#62
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Well... The news runs weepy stories of other mass animal killings...
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Jan 19 2007, 09:42 PM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
That doesn't last beyond the video of ghoul nests made of human bones with rotting meat still clinging to them. People only care if you kill cute animals. A comedian a while back pointed this out. In his skit, he was whining about the dolphin caught in the fishing net while kicking all the tuna out of the way. So, no I don't think most people would care too much about killing ghouls and other dangerous (and ugly) creatures. Now what would be interesting is if rabbits awakened into a Monty Python's Holy Grail type killer bunny. That'd put everyone in a real bind: its lethal enough to kill a cybered troll, but its soooo cute. |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:53 PM
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#64
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's not true. People bitched and moaned quite a bit when it was discovered that the Third Reich had been killing Poles, Soviets, Jews, et al, but people aren't very cute at all.
~J |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:57 PM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 14-January 07 From: Zurich Orbital Member No.: 10,642 |
Denis Leary-No Cure for Cancer. Possibly Drew Carey, he did that skit too, but Leary's is better. |
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Jan 19 2007, 10:42 PM
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#66
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...this is more where I come from in my campaigns and with my own characters. I see life outside the shadows (the world of the wageslave & "blue collar") being not to terribly different that what life in say New York City or Los Angeles, is today. Most SINners will hear about bad things on the news, but would fee like it most likely won't touch them. Life for them basically goes on, they get in their gridlink car, it takes them to the office, they put in their eight hours, get in their gridlink car, go home and have dinner. Even the poorer families (those of low lifestyle - which basically are the "blue collars" of SR) will have a fairly similar life albeit they may take the metro or drive an old junker. For those who squat or live in a cardboard box (street) yes life is much harsher, but I so not see them making up the bulk of a metroplex's population. I have seen (and been in) some campaigns which treat the entire city of Seattle like post Katrina New Orleans. That was an aberration, following Katrina, the local government broke down and those left in the city were forced to fend for themselves. In effect a major part of the city became a barrens (even the Superdome was reduced to a squalid slum and there were strong considerations to raise rather than repair it). Seattle (and most of the major metroplexes) have an organised government and services infrastructure. It may not be the most responsive, but it is still intact and tries to do its best with the revenue received though the regional tax base. There is an organised (albeit contract) police force which does bring a bit of the Robocop element into play (as Kage brought up) and MegaCorps have their own security forces allowed by their extraterritorial status. the Star does patrol the "AAA - B" neighbourhoods and keeps watch over the "C" rated ones. They tend to avoid the D - Z zones unless something really big goes down or the people they are pursuing are really important. Now if the campaign is more gang oriented and primarily takes place in and near the barrens, the "Post Katrina" angle works for me. If, as in my campaigns, the characters tend to deal more with the "Work-a-day" world and/or also travel as part of a job, I stick with the setting flavour I described at the top of this post. In a way I treat my "Visible" (read SINner) Shadowrun world kind of like the Matrix (the film - love it or hate it). On the surface, everything looks fine and normal, Disneyland and roses and all that rubbish. Underneath the surface is where things are dirty and harsh. One element I tend to employ is the more sinister aspect of the world. Johnsons work for corps (and occasionally even governments) who want "plausible deniability" which we all know is why they hire the SINless instead of use their own physical assets. The runners' interests mean nothing, you are just another tool. If you "break" (e.g. get geeked), no skin off their nose, they just go and find someone else. If you succeed you get some nuyen a pat on the back, and maybe a "we'll stay in touch" (unless the corp really wants to leave no loose strings behind). In a recent campaign, I played the sinister angle almost to an extreme. The team never realised who was causing most of the trouble until the very end, even though fairly strong hints were dropped throughout the campaign. Let me just say it was quite a surprise. Reading through this thread, I see, just as with any game, that everyone has their own style of GMing. I think that is good. I do not believe there really is just one correct way to run a scenario. The BBB even encourages this.
...agreed, and this is another angle I like to use. This is even more so in SR4 with the wireless connectability. Right now, in RL I am sitting at a coffee shop with free wireless access commenting on this forum. If I need to, I can instantly jump to say the BBC or Moscow 1, or Tokyo NHK while still linked to DS. I can get analyses and participate in forums on international affairs the US media avoids. Yes it has really changed my life. I do not have cable, sat TV or any newspaper/magazine subscriptions, yet find myself very informed, even more so. I can keep track of both a sporting match and a breaking news story while writing my next scenario for my game group. Only a couple years ago, I needed a land line and ISP (all at a monthly cost) and had to be tied to a specific location. Take it back a few more years and I had to depend on the broadcast and print media as well as make frequent visits to the library to do do research. Now if I need to, I can switch over to any website or file (such as my SR PDFs) with a keystroke to get the background I need while posting to this forum. Yes Information is power. This is the new "haves & have nots". Now imagine with a small pocket size device you are able to do everything I mentioned here plus play online games, watch vids, manage your portfolio, buy lunch, etc. you have the basis of what hyzmarca is talking about above. I remember an old IBM (I think it was them) commercial of a fellow sitting on a bench in a plaza (it might have been St Pete's in Rome). He is issuing commands with other people looking at him strangely, for he is all alone. When they move in for a closeup he has a monocle HUD which is flashing market data and responding to his voice commands. Though an enactment at the time, this is where we are headed. Heck, even Shadowrun found they were falling behind the times and had to catch up with the RL world by introducing the wireless matrix. Currently my hometown (Portland) is setting up a city wide wireless infrastructure. Once in place, I will not even need to go to the local coffee shop to "jack in". One more change in how I manage my life. |
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Jan 19 2007, 11:30 PM
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#67
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
HAHAHAHAHA |
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Jan 20 2007, 05:46 AM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Its a funny statement allright. :P but man that does get the point across. Thing is though, ultimately people fear what they dont understand. This is why ghouls dont have rights. But portrayed the right way they can get them. They did for a while afterall for a few years. Now their back to not having any in the UCAS. They -DO- have just as many rights in some juridictions as others however. It's the same deal with shapeshifters. THeir 'sentient' thust get rights. Places like the UCAS however dont really recognize ghouls, shapeshifters etc as anything more than 'animals' and thus obviously, their not 'sentient'. |
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Jan 20 2007, 05:49 AM
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#69
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
pffft... dragon for president yadda yadda...
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Jan 20 2007, 06:13 AM
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#70
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
And ghouls, they wanna have fun. Oh, ghouls just wanna have fun. |
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Jan 20 2007, 06:14 AM
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#71
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I was going to come up with a parody for that, but it works too well with most of the lyrics unchanged to do anything with.
~J |
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Jan 20 2007, 06:17 AM
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#72
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Yeah but who says no to a Dragon? Ghouls you just make with the shooting of the face |
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Jan 20 2007, 06:29 AM
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#73
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, in SR1 and SR2. By SR3 the Ghoul Rights movements has gotten the government to recognize that people with AIDS are people, too. The UCAS no longer issues bounties and killing ghouls is legally homocide. |
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Jan 20 2007, 06:36 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Wasnt that reversed however? Certainly no one is crying over the Detroit ghouls. |
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Jan 20 2007, 06:39 AM
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#75
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not that I can recall. Maybe you are thinking about Quebec? And what's so special about Detroit's ghouls? I would think that the large ghoul community in the Shattergraves of Chicago would be the first to come to mind. |
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