Wards 102, Links and Signatures |
Wards 102, Links and Signatures |
Jan 19 2007, 06:50 PM
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#1
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
An astral ward has a link to its creator. In SM p124 it indicates you could use astral tracking to follow the link to its creator so you can use your masking to fool the ward to let you through. So it exists. This makes me think there must be only one owner of a ward, so if two or more people worked cooperatively to create the ward only the primary owns it and receives warnings when it is broken etc.
Question 1: If someone performs the warding ritual to extend the life of the ward does the owner remain the same or switch to the new person who extended the ward. This would make sense, or else you could just take over wards. But then again the time it takes to do the ritual may mean that it is acceptable to allow this, and won’t break the usefulness of wards. It makes sense to me that the owner changes since if you’re the one who channeled new mana into the ward it’s you it will be astrally connected to. Question 2: If you order a spirit to create a ward could someone perform a metaplanar quest following the astral link in order to find the spirit, take control of it and change the entire set of pass through rights on the ward? Not like it’d happen often, but it seems that using spirits so you can’t be astrally tracked with the ward as the source of the link has a lot of advantages, perhaps this is a disadvantage, along with the lack of notification etc. Question 3: Does ward creation and the subsequent taking drain count as a service spirits abhor and will anger them? It seems like you’re forcing the spirit to take damage, but then again spirits are asked to materialize and take damage regularly and this is not seen as an abuse. However if you were using your own spirits for target practice it would be abuse. Question 4: Does a ward carry the creator’s astral signature? That’s definitely a yes, however can that signature be erased prior to the ward collapsing? A signature lasts for a number of hours equal to the force of the effect that created it, does that mean a Ward is a constant source of signature that is constantly being created so it cannot be erased until the ward is gone? Or is the source of the signature the use of the power and that fades fast. The astral signature description says, “Magical skills and abilities produce an astral signature on anything affected by them.” Does that mean the signature is created by the use of astral perception, which is the ability used to create a ward, and it starts fading after the ability was used. The rule states that the signature lasts a number of hours equal to force after the effect ends. So the ward is the effect and the signature lasts for force hours past the end of the effect, is that unless erased? Does a permanent spell like heal leave permanent signatures on the targets? What do you think? |
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Jan 19 2007, 07:08 PM
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#2
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I think these questions are harder than your other post. :-)
I'm willing to answer question #4 now, though. I say signature is constantly created as long as the magical effect is there. So it won't fade away from the ward. Similarly, a force 3 spell that is sustained for 5 hours will still take 3 hours to fade after the spell is dropped, not from the time of casting. For #3 I'd say it's the same as spellcasting. Normal spellcasting with normal drain is a service per spell, but not abusive. Forcing them to overcast is possible, but is abusive and possible grounds for spirit bane. I'm a little fuzzy on the ward creation rules, though, so I don't remember if the overcasting thing even applies. #2 sounds plausible, I guess. Good question, though. #1 has me scratching my head. I'll have to think about that for a while. |
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Jan 19 2007, 07:36 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669 |
For #1 I'd suggest that only the magician that made the ward can extend it. For any other magician, you have to drop it and put up a new one. This avoids having to answer the question in the first place, and makes it so that long term contracts with ward providers is a good investment.
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Jan 19 2007, 07:48 PM
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#4
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
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Jan 19 2007, 07:51 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
My answers:
Q1: The owner remains Q2: Yes, why not Q3: Depends on the Spirits and is totally up to GM Q4: yes and it is not eraseable prior to destruction of the ward |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:41 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
So how about a new type of Ward?
Traceless Ward Works exactly like an Alarm ward except that it has been created in such a way that it does not link to the mage who created it nor does it carry his signature. Astrally the ward looks like an independent magical entity with strength equal to its force. Requires Filtering to create. |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:44 PM
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#7
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Cheops, I like that very much, except I think there should be a downside. Such as, the creator does not know when the ward is damaged.
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Jan 19 2007, 09:45 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I would say if it were indepenadant and untraceable it would lake the link necessary to inform the ward owner of a breech, as such being like an alarm ward wouldn't be very useful.
Following the idea, at best you would use the technique to make an ownerless ward, that is untracable, but you'd have no personal rights over it as well. That may be overpowered as astrally tracability is a major drawback to warding. |
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Jan 19 2007, 09:49 PM
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#9
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I'm not sure if it'd be that overpowered. The person would be able to smash it down without you knowing, or manabolt it, or hit it with a ghoul, plus I would also rule that anyone who has the ability to spoof through a ward normally can do it to this one without having to sense your aura. And it does require an uncommon metamagic. All that adds up to a lot of rebalancing. I think it's a neat idea.
Although, now that I think about it, requiring filtering is a little weird. I mean, I see the logic, but I wonder if something like Flux might be more appropriate. |
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Jan 19 2007, 10:25 PM
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#10
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I am unconvinced this is possible. I believe that the entity that wishes to affect a ward must already have a link to that ward, otherwise one would not need to use Masking to sleaze the ward (SM p. 124). If it was me as GM (or FAQ writer), I'd rule that the ward belongs to the entity that led a team, if there was one, since the teamwork rules are used, and there is a clear leader.
Assuming the spirit has returned to its metaplane, that sounds good to me. I mean, "anyone who attempts to track the astral link ... can tell immediately that the link has been diverted into the metaplanes." (SM, p. 132)
It doesn't seem that spirits would abhor such a thing. It's not like they can be easily harmed on our plane of existence. This one, I think, is up to your friendly neighborhood GM.
When does the clock on the signature left behind by a sustained spell start? If your answer is "when it's dropped," then your ward is probably kicking out signature for its entire lifetime.
Yeah, like that.
"Permanent spells must be sustained for a short time, after which their effects become “natural” and no longer require magic or concentration to maintain." (SR4 p. 195) To me, that says that the magical effect ends when the magic is no longer sustained, i.e. six seconds per Drain DV, which means that the signature fades at (casting time) + (6s x DV) + (1h x Force). |
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Jan 19 2007, 10:30 PM
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#11
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Right. I would treat wards like quickened spells. A quickened spell is "permanent", but it's still magic, and it's still putting out signature. A permanent spell like heal is over as soon as it becomes permanent and isn't sustained, so signature starts to fade. |
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