 CSI: Shadowrun |
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 Jan 22 2007, 08:45 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992  |
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Jan 22 2007, 08:53 PM
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#2
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Cool. I use some of the stuff he/she has provided so far in my games.
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Jan 22 2007, 09:56 PM
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#3
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
I love AH's comment. Its so.... true?
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Jan 22 2007, 11:31 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Interesting posts.
His solution to magic use is much like mine: only use it when necessary on a run. The Cleansing and the new variable trace (can't think of the name) metamagics can help with that. He's right on about the PANs leaving traces everywhere. Limit the gear and go wired as much as possible. For communications, there are probably disposable commlinks just like there are disposable cellphones these days. Aside from that, old fashioned radios should be small and cheap and should work just fine, provided there aren't too many walls and such between the team members. Ammo is still a problem. If all of it is marked by the manufacturer, then going to private makers wouldn't solve the problem either. As that fellow pointed out, the Corps will probably know or be able to track down the maker anyway. Making your own might help on a single run because it would be unique. However, the second time you used it, to include at another location on a single run, they would be able to link the actions to you very easily due to that uniqueness. Swapping out barrels and firing pins after a heavy run would probably help and would not require buying a completely new gun. |
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Jan 22 2007, 11:40 PM
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#5
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Good thread. Good analysis (IMO at least) of how forensics go in SR. I agree that the fundemental tenet of Shadowrun, what makes is a playable game, is that there is no real forensics being done. If there is no added incentive for a corp to get you (i.e., they want to retrieve a physial sample you stole), there is no reason why anyone would attempt to hunt you down. Justice for justice's sake is not profitable.
Edit: Also, me and my gaming group, mostly after watching a few CSI episodes (unrealisticness of it all notwithstanding), ame to the conclusions that there are so many forensics tricks and ways to identifiy you, that no matter how careful you are, a sufficiently determined investigator WILL track you down. Thankfully, in SR, the cost threshold at which point it becomes too expensive to track you down arrives very quickly. |
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Jan 23 2007, 12:42 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: 13-July 03 From: Scotsprawl Member No.: 4,923 |
Think i hear the corps knocking on my runners back door :(
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Jan 23 2007, 03:00 AM
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#7
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
I prefer to think that the role (and indeed, the name) of CSI has changed over the intervening 63 years (or 53 years) between now and 2070 (or 2060).
Specifically, it no longer means Crime Scene Investigation. Now it means Crime Scene Instigation. At least informally. CSI dosen't have to actually investigate the crimes and use forensics evidence. They just have to "find" forensics evidence that backs up whatever the parent corp wants to say. Ex: Investigator: "Boss, these guys capped forty people, women and children, when they hit that orpahnage. We need to make a kill, fast, of people will panic." Boss: "Right! CSI, remember those 'runners that we caught last month that did a run for us after we put those kink bombs in their heads?" CSI: "You want them to have done this, right?" Boss: "Right! Think you can handle it?" CSI: "No problem. We got samples and everything, won't take but a day to put together an open-and-shut case." Boss: "Good. HTR?" HTR: "Yes, boss?" Boss: "Geek 'em. No survivors. Anyone who surrenders was "shot while resisting arrest". Get it done in under a day." HTR: "We ride!" Boss: *sits back smugly.* |
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Jan 23 2007, 03:18 AM
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#8
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
This article in a nutshell is a direct quote from "Heat": Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.
fixed. tasers and electroshock rounds are dirt cheap. then put a few sedative patches on them and they're out for hours. |
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Jan 23 2007, 03:35 AM
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#9
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Good lord. I agree with AH. What is the world coming to?
Uh... No. It isn't even close. |
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Jan 23 2007, 04:13 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
So I don't actually know anything about the process of manufacturing ammunition, but would it be all that crazy to say that a 'runner with a Shop of some sort (probably an Armorer's Shop, I guess) could make their own ammo? Raw materials would likely be more difficult to trace than manufactured ammunition, if not nearly impossible. Although that would make his/her ammo completely unique I suppose... Hmmm... perhaps you could either make ammo that is as close to an exact copy (or a perfect copy if you could steal the proper data) of a more common type of ammo, but has no markings. Or maybe you could change the way the ammo is made slightly every time, though that would likely be more expensive and the ammo would still share the fact that it doesn't have numbers on it. Anyways, like I said, I don't really know anything about the process of making ammo, so feel free to shoot holes in it if you wish.
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Jan 23 2007, 04:30 AM
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#11
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
y'know. a lot of factories overseas often run unofficial third shifts to make goods they can sell on the black market. why would ammunition be any different?
or just buy it from a country that doesn't have such laws. I assure you most don't. lead slugs aren't hard to cast, but I doubt ex ex or sticky shock would be whithin the range of a home setup... APDS might not be too hard... |
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Jan 23 2007, 08:39 AM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Happydaze eat your heart out. :wobble:
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Jan 23 2007, 12:30 PM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
If you could peek inside my head, you might know. |
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Jan 23 2007, 04:04 PM
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#14
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
People do make their own ammunition. I don't know how common it is, but people do it. That said, using custom ammo you'd just have a new problem. Instead of your ammo being traceable by lot number etc, it would just have its own file at LS and KE. :) |
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Jan 23 2007, 05:51 PM
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#15
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
See? I told you he was an IE! |
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Jan 23 2007, 05:59 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Most people don't make their ammo from scratch, but buy components and assemble them. They buy casings, powder and bullets and put them together to make just the kind of load they want. They could hot load a pistol round for more hitting power or they could light load a heavier bullet to make silencers more effective. Or they can make a batch of match grade rounds so their performance it almost perfectly identical. Actually making rounds from scratch would probably be quite expensive and sime consuming. You'd need a machine to make the casings, and that machine would have to be resettable to make all different calibers and lengths. They you'd have to have another one to make bullets. With the jacketing and hollow points and such, that wouldn't be too easy either. Then, of course, there is the powder. That would have to be milled just so and would require buying the component chemicals which would leave a trace and some of those might actually be tagged, depending on how paranoid the government is in the future. So, you'd be looking at an expensive set up to crank out a few bullets at a time. A friend of mine used to reload shotgun shells. He did that mainly to save money over the cost of store bought rounds. Most of the time he could recycle shells but they do wear out. That left regularly buying powder, cups, primers and shot. Eventually, the price came down so much on factory shells that it was cheaper to buy new than reload. Now all that said, I know that there are a few small companies out there that will make bullets to your specifications. I suppose one could ask them the cost of the set up, operating and time costs, though if they would actually tell you that is another matter. |
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Jan 23 2007, 06:44 PM
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#17
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Oh dear goddess no. I value what tenuous grasp I have left on my sanity. Now its interesting you say that, as a old friend of my family still loads his own 30 aut 6 because its cheaper to buy the parts in bulk and do it himself. |
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Jan 23 2007, 07:09 PM
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#18
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but it wouldn't be all that difficult to manufacture your own bullets. I agree that most people likely buy components, and even people that make their own bullets likely buy powder and casings pre-made, and that even they have to buy their metal stock somewhere, but people have been pouring their own bullets since the ball and cap days (and prior, now that I think about it; amend that to say "since the invention of firearms"). I don't see why it would disappear, especially in the context of someone wanting custom ammunition. For example, "bullet mold" in Google, first result. Clicking "blank bullet mold" and then "use" leads to a description making sure that you realize that the bullet mold being sold hasn't been machined (in other words, there's no bullet shape cut into it yet). So it's definitely out there. As far as expense, etc., my father has a complete metal shop in one corner of his larger wood shop. Lathe, milling machine, presses, saws, etc. Expense is in the eye of the person that needs something done and wants to do it himself. ;) |
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Jan 23 2007, 07:55 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
Well the main problem with identifying ammo seemed to be the numbers on it, and those are on the bullets themselves, right? Not the casing. So it seems to me that you would only really need to manufacture the bullet part and you could get the rest somewhere else, probably alternate what types/how much you use, every bit of misdirection helps. And like I said, if you could steal the right data I bet you could find out how a big corp manufactures theirs, might lead to an easier/more efficient process and you could attempt to copy them.
Or I guess you could just buy it off the black market/foreign market like Fix-it said. Though that's considerably less interesting to discuss. |
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Jan 24 2007, 02:01 AM
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#20
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'd rather rip off my scrotum with my fingernails.
Collecting hundreds of other peoples' work into a couple of pages doesn't make him a goddamn IE. |
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Jan 24 2007, 02:02 AM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I love it when you sweet-talk. |
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Jan 24 2007, 04:48 AM
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#22
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Denial is such an ugly thing. Search your feelings, you know it to be true! |
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Jan 24 2007, 05:02 AM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
There is a realization that I believe is inevitable in the maturation process of the Dumpshocker: the realization that Ancient History is not God.
Dedicated, detail-oriented (in some respects), and willing to put forth a great deal of effort, certainly, but as much as I indulged in it in my youth, and as much as I do believe he deserves a great deal of credit, he nevertheless gets more than is reasonable (though I don't see that as his fault). ~J |
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Jan 24 2007, 05:31 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 2-January 07 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,510 |
Blasphemer, Heretic, Defiler of the Sacred Ones. Thou art Deprived of Your Limbs. Thy Nose Shall be Split. Thou art Cast Down and Overthrown. Blows are Rained upon Thee. Dismemberment and Slaughter are on Thee. Thy Crocodile is Trampled under Foot. Thy Soul is Wrenched from its Shade. Thy Name is Erased. Thy Spells are Impotent. Nevermore Shalt Thou Emerge from Thy Den. Thy Name is Buried in Oblivion. Be Drowned, Be Drowned, Be Vomited Upon. The Gods have Pronounced Thy Doom. The Ancient Ones Turn Their Backs upon Thee. Thou Art Cast Down, Overthrown. Thy Reign of Heresy is Ended. Those Thou Hast Driven Out Have Risen Against Thee. Cast down the Heretic. Cast down the Heretic. Cast down the Heretic. |
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Jan 24 2007, 08:21 AM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
I didn't know he got any recognition. I just thought he was a guy with too much time on his hands, who provided somewhere for us to spend the time... which we have too much of... on our hands.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 30th April 2025 - 08:19 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.