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 Advanced char creation, using 2000 karma and 4 million nuyen |
 Jan 25 2007, 10:51 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304  |
Well, I have a challenge for all you experts and nay sayers.
There are way too many sammy sucks, adept sucks, mystic adepts suck, etc... threads. Magic is broken cause it is uncapped, etc... Bioware is broken cause.... So, let's see what people can build with a large amount of karma and nuyen. Here is the set-up 400 build points, as normal No contacts needed (too many ways of getting contacts, some cost karma, others don't). No starting gear (assume it was used up over the chars career). Then add in 2000 karma and 4 million nuyen No limitations on availability. So, let's see these broken adepts, sammies, etc.. Hmm, would be nice if people could post a sammy and an adept, so that others can compare, to see how broken they would be compared to each other. |
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Jan 25 2007, 11:02 PM
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#2
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...the KK5.0-2000X project R&D team has just been assembled.
BTW, Positive & Negative Qualities? |
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Jan 25 2007, 11:09 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
sure, qualities allowed, as per the rules
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Jan 25 2007, 11:29 PM
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#4
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
I think I just had a Munchgasim.
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Jan 25 2007, 11:40 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
:rotfl: Interesting challenge, I think I will get my mystic adept infiltrator starting char and see what she could become. (For play I actually made this char mundane because the GM didn't own street magic at the time). It might take some time... |
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Jan 25 2007, 11:47 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I gave the challenge once to build a SAM with 10 million Nuyen. Some kind of Super Bodyguard.
Bottom line was that most of the time there is not enough cyberware to buy with the money, even if it is all delta. |
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Jan 26 2007, 12:24 AM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
This time, it's 4 million, though.
Mage done by tomorrow. |
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Jan 26 2007, 12:47 AM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Wellington, KS Member No.: 10,734 |
2000 karma, 4 million :nuyen: AND the origional 400 build points?! What's this all about... you could get a character to do anything with that kind of stuff...
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Jan 26 2007, 12:49 AM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
It's about the other thread about if adepts suck. The point of the exercise is probably to show how in that extreme of situations the best will all be awakened.
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Jan 26 2007, 12:50 AM
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#10
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
:rotfl: Well, 4 million :nuyen: is not that much when it comes to deltaware... |
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Jan 26 2007, 12:55 AM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
As an excercise the otherday I looked at what I would put in my own personal combat monster if money were no object. I didn't think to compute a price, since money was no object. =P
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Jan 26 2007, 12:55 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Wellington, KS Member No.: 10,734 |
But the houserule that would let you change the 2000 karma into 6,000,000 :nuyen: would help.
I guess, it just seems a little much... |
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Jan 26 2007, 01:01 AM
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#13
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
That not a good conversion, imo. |
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Jan 26 2007, 01:01 AM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
The thing is, these numbers aren't really relevant to actual game play. I am, however, making a mage for the hell of it. |
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Jan 26 2007, 01:07 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Wellington, KS Member No.: 10,734 |
The rule is one karma = 3,000 nuyen 2,000 * 3,000 = 6,000,000 How is that not a good conversion? Unless you're simply stating that not many people would want to use all their karma for nuyen... |
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Jan 26 2007, 01:17 AM
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#16
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Yep. And as a player I would cash in a point of hard-earned karma for 5,000 :nuyen: , not less. Even then only maybe. |
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Jan 26 2007, 01:58 AM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 22-January 07 Member No.: 10,741 |
Street Sam:
Race: Ork Body 9 (10) Agility 7 (10) Reaction 5 (9) Strenght 8 (12) Charisma 5 (7) Intuition 6 Logic 5 (7) Willpower 6 Edge: 6 Initiative: 15+4D6 Essence: 0,26 Positive Qualities: Quick Healer Aptitude: Firearms Exeptional Attribute: Agility Negative Qualities: Uncouth (Removed 15 BP negative Quality) Skills: Longarms 7 (8) (Sniper Rifles) Automatics 7 (8) (Assault Rifles) Pistols 7 (8) (Hold-Outs) Blades 6 (Cyber Implant Blades) Perception 6 (Visual) Pilot Ground Craft 6 (Bike) Dodge 6 (Ranged Combat) Unarmed Combat 6 (Parrying) Escape Artist 6 Parachuting 6 Diving 6 Stealth Skill Group 6 Athletics Skill Group 6 (11) Biotech Skill Group 6 Outdoors Skill Group 6 Intimidation 6 (Physical) Influence Skill Group 6 +many Activesofts Rating 4 from Skillwires Cyberware Bioware: Synaptic Booster III (Betaware) Reflex Recorder: Firearms (Betaware) Reflex Recorder: Athletics (Betaware) Pain Editor (Betaware) Suprathyroid Gland (Betaware) Platelet Factories (Betaware) Muscle Toner II (Betaware) Muscle Augmentation III (Betaware) Enhanced Articulation (Betaware) Synthacardium III (Betaware) Sleep Regulator (Betaware) Adrenaline Pump III (Betaware) Tailored Pheromones II (Betaware) Cerebral Booster II (Deltaware) Cyberware : Cybereyes III (Deltaware) +Flare Compensation +Low-Light Vision +Thermographic Vision +Vision Enhancement II +Smartlink +Vision Magnification +Protective Covers Cyberears I (Deltaware) +Damper +Audio Enhancement III Titanium Bone Lacing (Deltaware) Skillwires V (Deltaware) Datajack (Deltaware) Internal Air Tank (Deltaware) Dermal Plating III (Deltaware) Spore (Deltaware) Money used : 3,4335 Million Nuyen + Activesofts Karma used : 1518 --------------- Adept : Race: Elf Body 6 Agility 8 Reaction 6 (9) Strenght 6 Charisma 8 Intuition 6 Logic 6 Willpower 6 Edge: 6 Initiative: 15 + 4D6 Essence: 6,0 Magic: 24 Initation Grade : 18 Metamagics : Everything usefull Positive Qualities: Adept Aptitude: Firearms Exeptional Attribute: Agility Negative Qualities: Sensible System Criminal SIN Skills: Automatics 7 (10) (Assault Rifles) Longarms 7 (10) (Sniper Rifles) Perception 6 (12) (Visual) Dodge 6 (Ranged Combat) Unarmed Combat 4 (Parrying) Pilot Ground Craft 4 (Bike) Etiquette 4 (Street) Leadership 6 (9) Infiltration 6 (9) Disguise 6 (9) First Aid 3 Athletics Skill Group 5 Adept Powers: Increased Reflexes III Improved Senses (Low-Light Vision; Thermographic Vision; Sound Dampening; Improved Scent) Astral Perception Boost Attribute: Agility Boost Attribute: Strenght Boost Attribute: Body Combat Sense II Kinesics II Mystic Armor IV Pain Resistance IV Enhanced Perception VI Traceless Walk Sustenance Quick Draw Motion Sense Gliding Commanding Voice Improved Ability: Automatics III Improved Ability: Longarms III Improved Ability: Leadership III Improved Ability: Infiltration III Improved Ability: Disguise III Karma used: 2000 Money used: 0 Nuyen Cyber-/Bioware: If its allowed he uses Muscle Toner IV (Deltaware), Pain Editor (Deltaware), Skillwires V (Deltaware); Datajack (Deltaware) and Platelet Factories (Deltaware). Pain Resistance IV is useless then -> erase. |
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Jan 26 2007, 02:15 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
karma is very valuable stuff... using karma to have stats hit the max is always fun.
16 times regular starting wealth... removing availibility and rating restrictions... thats a lot of ware. but with delta, its only 1.6 times as much ware. Deltaware: Datajack, cybereyes(r4, 13/16), Cyberears(r3, 12/12), control rig, ultrasound sensor, olfactory booster, skillwires 5, for a total of 1.5 essence of deltaware, or 0.75 essence after bioware. only 557,500! Bioware (5.49 essence limit)- bone density 4, muscle augment 4, muscle toner 4, orthoskin 3, platelet factories, cerebral booster 3, synaptic booster 3 (base essence of 5.85 standard). with beta-grade bioware (2.1M), essence left is 1.155 (1.54) Now, our sam has +4 to strength and agility (maxed from 5 base for humans), +3 react, +3 logic, +3/+3 armor and +4 dice to soak damage. the only ware that would need a permit would be the smartlink. this leaves 1,342,500 :nuyen: for other equipment and/or wares. with over a point of essence to play withm thats not too bad! dont forget to buy software for the skill wires- agility of 5(9) is wonderfull when you can plug+play skill 4 for 13 dice. Now to make people annoyed- make the above character a mage. 1 magic left. plus initiation. karma-sink like crazy, but you can see the fun there. personaly i would keep em mundane and grab more ware, but the option is there. on the otehr hand, you could take 'sensitive system' and writeup a wonderfull background of his medical history with ware. Or a technomancer is possible, with that extra resonance to stay functioning. you could get more performance by fine-tuning costs and grade, but the above is the fast and dirty optimization. some things are a essence vs karma tradeoff (like the 4th point of agility from ware). Personaly, i would go with an ork. stats of 8(12*) B, 5(9) A, 5(8 ) R, 7(11) S, 1 C, 1 I, 4(8 )L, 3 W before karma... easy to buy up the low stats with karma. (6+9+12+15= 42 for a 5 initive, thus 13 initive) |
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Jan 26 2007, 02:16 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 9-January 07 Member No.: 10,580 |
congratulations, you just built two universal soldiers. |
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Jan 26 2007, 02:24 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 22-January 07 Member No.: 10,741 |
@celegar
Quoting the whole posting ? :eek: Well, i did what the thread was about. |
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Jan 26 2007, 02:34 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 2-January 07 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,510 |
And fast, too. I highly respect someone who will look at a purely theoretical excercise to debate some trite point about theoretical game situations, and then immediately get to work and start cranking out numbers to share with the community. There's something just so special about that. If only more people in the world were like you, Kil2k. |
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Jan 26 2007, 04:33 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 15-January 07 Member No.: 10,652 |
Okay, I buy a Permanent Luxury Lifestyle and retire. :D
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Jan 26 2007, 05:18 AM
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#23
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
You can buy a spare in case your enemies trash the first one.
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Jan 26 2007, 06:10 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Sorry, no can do. You need 10 million for a permanent lifestyle of luxury. 8) |
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Jan 26 2007, 06:21 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Actually, the point of the exercise is to see if, overtime, sammies are as good adepts, and to see if adepts are as good as sammies. The numbers are relevant to actual game play, and to the question of whether uncapped magic attribute makes the adepts over powered. An amount of karma that would difficult for any player to get, but possible if the char is nursed along for years. An amount of NuYen that would allow decent modifications, but not unlimited, and carefully chosen so that you couldn't just buy a luxury lifestyle and retire. I took a nice round and large number, 2000 karma, I figured 5 karma per run, and averaged 10k per run, with lifestyle already taken out. This would give you almost 8 years of runs, averaging 1 run a week. Personally, I think that we will find that both sammies and adepts even out over the long run, but this will allow all kinds of nay sayers on both sides of the argument to try and prove their points. |
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