 How powerful ARE immortal elves? |
  |
 Jan 27 2007, 01:38 PM
Post
#51
|
|||||
|
Manus Celer Dei  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802  |
Oh, I agree on this point. IEs aren't bulletproof, they're just good at not being where the bullets will hit.
Well, for Harlequin at least, he can Netherwalk. As a result, he only needs a few seconds of warning. Others will probably use some combination of run+powerball. ~J |
||||
 |
 
|
||||
|
Jan 27 2007, 02:24 PM
Post
#52
|
|||
|
Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Oh no, by all means unleash the deluge. I'm interested in criticisms. And thanks. For his initiate grade of 12, I thought about what players in any normal campaign were likely to reach and then almost doubled it. The effect that I wanted was to create something that was unmatchable but could be understood. He actually has a magic rating a couple higher than a great dragon and these beasts are as old as he is and presumably started off more powerful as well. I did toy with removing the caps, but didn't in the end. I want him to be vulnerable. It's just that he should be so darned smart that it's near impossible to get the advantage of him. I never actually read Worlds Without End, I'm working purely from Harlequinn and comments I've read here and elsewhere. I just liked the idea of him being a pure sorceror for an interesting twist. I just couldn't see the archetypal solitaire-individual messing around with summoning elementals. But thanks for the catch. I guess he'll need some conjuring skills after all. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time the H. has been statted out. I'd like to see any others. -K. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 27 2007, 07:28 PM
Post
#53
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
On a partially related note, I just had an idea for a skill atrophy rule that pretty much only wastes karma for IEs but can theoretically apply to anyone.
Every decade, roll each skill that is rarely used against a TN of that skill. If there is a single success, no loss. If not, the value of the highest die is the new skill level. I would like to know about any campaign where this actually matters, since most runners are either retired or "retired" before a decade passes. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 27 2007, 07:48 PM
Post
#54
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Every decade? Hah!
About the only ones to whom that would matter would be IEs or GDs. Everyone else's lifespan is too short, and certainly Player Character's lifespans are. The only way I could see it being relevant is if someone who had a character set in 2050 "came out of retirement" in 2070, with twenty-year old cyber and rusty skills. But you'd probably build him as a new PC anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 27 2007, 08:24 PM
Post
#55
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Honestly, for an NPC like an IE, I wouldn't do a bunch of dice tests and meticulous bookkeeping like that - I would just use skill degradation over time as a counterpoint to centuries of life in assigning realistic skills rather than skills in the 50's.
As far as Knasser's take, I think it succeeds for what he was trying to do with it in his campaign (create someone ultra-powerful but within their ability to at least potentially defeat). It's a bit too weak for Harlequin as depicted in various sources - I don't see him being an aspected sorcerer, or not knowing any metamagic. I do like that he had some more modern skills, and that they were NOT rating: 6 ones. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 27 2007, 09:07 PM
Post
#56
|
|||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
"I've forgotten more than you'll ever know." |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 27 2007, 09:22 PM
Post
#57
|
|||||
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
"Admitting the onset of senility is the first step to overcoming it." |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 27 2007, 09:35 PM
Post
#58
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Other Place works very well if the weapon has a kill radius of less than 1 mile. All you have to do is step through the door while chanting "I believe in magical teleportation." With a kill radius of less than 25 yards, Form Change works wonders and is a good enough reason to never send a strike team with more than one member against an IE. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 27 2007, 09:48 PM
Post
#59
|
|||||
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Next you're going to say that magic can ressurect, aren't you? ED != SR |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:08 AM
Post
#60
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Surely Harlequin would just hide under his healing tree.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:28 AM
Post
#61
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The ability for magic to resurrect is severely hindered by the lack of magma in the Caspian Sea.
But yes, assuming that Harlequin goes on an Astral Quest to kick Death in the crotch and has Journey to Life in a spell matrix (because the drain will be killer), magic can resurrect. There was never an explicit prohibition against magical resurrection in SR. Sorcery can't bend space-time, but nothing says that Sorcery can't be used to resurrect. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:40 AM
Post
#62
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Realistically, barring continuity-of-consciousness questions, resurrection should just be a very big version of heal/treat. The trick is how much bigger it is, and how quickly it gets even bigger than that (as stuff that isn't actually dead but is necessary to life dies because nothing's feeding/oxygenating it).
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:53 AM
Post
#63
|
|
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Ummmm, it's cannon that both teleportation and Ressurection are explicitly impossible in Shadowrun.
Or are you saying that the BBB lies? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:56 AM
Post
#64
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Dude, I'm sorry if I look like a nitpicking asshole, but I've seen it done so much that I have to say something.
It's "canon." |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:59 AM
Post
#65
|
|||
|
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Oh, Emo.. You are a nitpicking asshole! :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 28 2007, 12:59 AM
Post
#66
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Can I get a page reference? Neither SR3 nor SR4 contains the string "resurrection".
Edit: change string to "resurrect", got a reference to the CAS rising again. ~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:03 AM
Post
#67
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:05 AM
Post
#68
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Street Magic is A: not the BBB, B: explicitly wrong (see Earthdawn), C: apocrypha.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:06 AM
Post
#69
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I remember something about Death being trapped in Earthdawn. if he's free now, then resurrection won't work until he's trapped again.
And how is Street Magic less authoritative than the BBB? It's about as official as you can get. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:06 AM
Post
#70
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Was that way before, as I recall, and just as explicitly.
edit: sorry, posted too slow. I was adding on to emo's quote of SM. Kage, it's going to be an uphill battle. Someone already posted it, but Shadowrun is not Earthdawn, and as far as I can remember and as much as I know about SR4 (not much, admittedly) still supports that even if an IE knew "how" to raise the dead, it's still not supported by the mana level of the 6th World. As far as "SM is not the BBB", are you next going to try and say that R3, MitS, and M&M "aren't the BBB and therefore don't matter"? That might fly in a group that only owns and plays by the BBB, but I don't think that's the case here. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:13 AM
Post
#71
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Define teleportation. Could there not be magic to take a mage's physical body into astral space and from there propel himself as astral space speeds then when he reaches his destination use the the same magic to return his body to the physical plane. Is that teleportation? or something else. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:15 AM
Post
#72
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Astral travel isn't quite instantaneous, even if it takes you to any place in the world within an hour and a half. But yes, I remember someone saying something about Harlequin putting stuff on the astral with a 10 hour ritual that practically knocked him out.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:30 AM
Post
#73
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I should have separated it from the other points, because it isn't an attack on the validity of the passage. I guess it should be replaced with "is there a reference in the SR3 or SR4 core book?", because it was implied that there was and I'm curious to know if that's true independent of the current discussion. As for Shadowrun is not Earthdawn, I reject that completely. They are explicitly the same world. There's a longer post in here about how either the Heal spell has to be excised from canon, resurrection has to be made explicitly possible, or Shadowrun has to officially recognize a "soul", but I'll get to that later. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:34 AM
Post
#74
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Well, it doesn't have to be an immortal soul, now does it?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 28 2007, 01:38 AM
Post
#75
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
No, it doesn't, but it has to be something such that repairing the damage that caused death and that occurred after death, even to the point of restoring a perfectly functioning central nervous system and support organs, does not restore a person to life.
FWIW, Earthdawn supports this "official-soul-recognition" view due to it being Death's imprisonment allowing resurrection. If anyone has a better explanation, I'd really appreciate it—I'd like to avoid this one. ~J |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 31st December 2025 - 01:58 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.