How did spell matrixes work in ED? Options

[emo samurai]

Did they reduce magic like they say in the spell threading thread?

[Crusher Bob]

Lemme see what I remember.

In general astral space was so screwed up that mages needed 'safe space' to cast their spells. The spell matrix was a filter (or something) that a mage could put a spell into, and then cast safely. Magic could still be cast normally (called raw magic) but was typically very dangerous in that it attracted horrors, horror marks, and all sorts of other unpleasantness.

Each spell matrix had a maximum number of spell threads that could be woven to it. The number of threads a spell matrix could accept was based on your discipline level (as well as the total number of matricies you had). In general, the spells with more threads were more powerful, but weaving a thread cost an action, iirc so that the more powerful spells tended to also be slower. Most mages would keep at least 1 matrix holding a simple willforce damage based blast spell.

The metaqmagic of filtering in SR is somewhat similar.

[emo samurai]

Did weaving the thread cause drain? And how did ritual magic work in ED? Did that cause drain?

[Crusher Bob]

If I remember right, thread weaving didn't cause drain. Casting raw magic caused drain based on the number fo threads the spell would have required.

Erm, I don't remember too much ritual magic in Earthdawn. I don't think it had the ritual sample + remote head exploding type ritual magic that SR does, anyway.

[emo samurai]

Hmmm... how to convert this wholesale?

That sounds like it could be really broken if it was taken to SR. I mean, Force 9 fireball cast without Drain, with only 27 seconds preparation?

And could matrixes sustain spells?

[Crusher Bob]

Because every time you wanted to bring the fireball out, it would require X complex actions (thread weaving) to cast. In addition, your attempt to weave the thread could theoretically fail. (The difficulty to weave each thead was determined on a by spell basis, iirc.)

Assuming you want to port it over to SR4 it could look like.

Advanced Metamagic: Spell Matrix (can be taken multiple times to obtain multiple matricies)
Requires: Filtering

The mage is able to create a safe zone of astral space (called a spell matrix). This spell matrix allows him to cast spells unaffected by background count and with no drain.

System:
The mage can place a spell up to force = magic in a spell matrix. Placing the spell into the matrix requires a number of minutes equal to the spells force, and causes drain as if the mage had just cast the spell.

To cast the spell in the matrix, the mage must spend a number of 'weaving actions' equal to force of the spell divided by three (round up). Once the weaving has begun, any interruption means the weaving must be started over from scratch. The target of the spell must be a valid target throughout the weaving. Spells cast from spell matricies are unaffected by background count (positive or negative). In addition, spells cast from spell matricies do not cause drain.

[edits]
In basically every case, casting raw magic was faster and more powerful. The spell matrix was there for safety, not to make the bigger booms. (Drain damage was not a big limiter.)
[/edit]

[emo samurai]

So it's not that game-breaking, is it?

I'd say you get a number of spell matrices equal to initiation grade; that way, it scales in power like pretty much every other metamagic.

[NightmareX]

Matrixes were essentially canned spells. You bought the Spell Matrix talent set at a certain maximum Circle of spell it could hold with xp. You also knew a bunch of spells. Whenever you wanted, you would meditate to attune a desired spell to the matrix in question, which took a few minutes, and after that you could cast the spell without Drain or risk of astral taint/horror mark using your Spellcasting talent (although sometimes it was necessary to weave a thread to it first) all day if you wanted to. Note that matrices existed on the astral though, so they could be damaged and destroyed there, which would mean you had to buy a new one with more xp.

Edit - that's what I get for sitting on a thread before posting in it :(

[hyzmarca]

[Crusher Bob]

But, horror marks were useful. At least if you were a high enough circle horror stalker. You could isolate the horror mark from your own pattern so that the horror couldn't effect you through it, then use it to track the horror down. Horror stalkers had the survivability to dot.com startups. But, like Amazon, some few succeeded and they were glorious.

[hyzmarca]

That was their unique First Circle Talent, Suppress Horror Mark.
Their unique Second Circle Talent, Deathstrike, killed them instantly with no resistance roll and no possibility of resurrection if their Suppress Horror Mark failed.

Yeah, instant inescapable death is considered a feature rather than bug. That, my friends, is one F-ed up Discipline.

[zephir]

Spell matrices each house a compressed spell. If you want to cast that spell, you weave a corresponding number of threads (for a fireball that is 1.) Then you cast the spell and the matrix shrinks back to it's compressed state. This has taken two rounds with the fireball, each ten seconds long.


The number of matrices a spellcaster has is usually very limited, in the range of two to ten. You can change the spells in your matrices in 10 minutes per matrix IIRC. There is also fast reattunement, but it has the chance of failing spectacularly. The level of your matrix talent (skill) needs to equal or exceed the circle (level) of the spell you want to attune, the number of required threads is not a factor. You need a separate matrix skill for every matrix.


A translation to SR seems difficult, as ED has no concepts for drain levels, force or staging. An ED fireball spell is pretty advanced in circle (5) already and still doesn't kill most ordinary citizens in one go. (What was it, Willforce + 8 ~20-25 damage minus armor)
You might want to limit the spell's force by matrix level/2, and require no threads for an L-drain spell, 1 thread for an M-drain spell, 2 threads for an S-drain spell and 4 threads for a D-drain spell adding any positive power modifiers to the number of threads. Also a Matrix Attunement metamagical technique + skill and a separate Matrix skill for every Matrix you possess (up to a maximum of initiate grade/3) would be in order. Force and DL have to be specified at attunement. Only spells designed for Matrix casting can be put into matrices (read: you cannot just use your old formulas but need to research/buy new ones.) And then give matrices to the GD, Aina, Alachia and Harlequin.



The Horror Stalker discipline is not good for your game. As a second discipline for an experienced adept it was not an instant death sentence, but it still destroyed a lot of the horror atmosphere. In ED, you are IMHO not supposed to routinely kill horrors. The idea is more that you run from them if you can, and only if you cannot, you sometimes turn around and try to fight it off.



Re: hyzmarca
IIRC they didn't have to use Deathstrike. Alternatively, you can always choose not to learn it in circle advancement.

Edited to correct Fireball damage.

[Kagetenshi]

Why would you not learn Deathstrike? I mean, it exists for a reason and is almost inevitably better than the alternative.

~J

[Crusher Bob]

I though deathstrike was the one where all your karma was converted to bonus damage against a horror? Or was that some other powe?

[Grinder]

[hyzmarca]

Yes, all your karma is converted into bonus damage which hits the horror no matter where it is. And you die. The point is to prevent corruption and get in one last laugh at the same time. If you're lucky, it kills the horror. On a good day, it wounds the horror so badly that it is left vulnerable to one of your friends who will avenge you. Sometime, it just shrugs off the damage and laughs.

And yes, Deathstrike is always better than the alternative, if it ever activates.

[Kagetenshi]

[zephir]

All my ED books except the main book are in my father's attic, so I can only go from memory. When exactly does Deathstrike activate or when does one usually activate it?
When you get marked and fail to suppress the mark? When you become corrupted?

If it fires when you become corrupted, I can see that dead is the better alternative. If it fires on an unsuppressed mark, I would not learn it. The idea of the HS discipline is fighting horrors and suffering all the time, not give up your life for the chance to cause a horror a wound. Example: J'Role the honorable thief, who lived some years with a horror's mark and finally slew it in Parlainth. Granted, he's one fucked up person afterwards, but then again, who isn't ...

If you want to willingly give up your life to kill a horror using your karma, there is a much more effective way to do it: You declare your intent to put your life into the next strike and all your karma is rolled as additional damage if you hit. Then you irrevocably die, save perhaps some magics like "Journey to Life" or Passion intervention. I'd rule you irrevocably die.
Don't ask me which of the books this lifemagic is in.
Magic: A Manual of Mystic Secrets?
Arcane Mysteries oB?
Companion?


Sorry for derailing the thread, but I hope the original question has been answered.

[hyzmarca]

Excuse me, I was mistaken in my earlier post. The Talent with suppresses Horror Marks is called Bear Mark is is available at Third Circle, not First.

Deathstrike activates automatically if three conditions are met. The is Stalker is Marked by a Horror, that Horror manipulates the Stalker through magical or mundane means, and the Stalker performs an act that serves the Horror's agenda.

The damage is significantly better than most alternatives because he cannot be resisted or reduced in any way and it hits the Horror no matter where he is in relation to the Stalker. Even if the Horror is on Venus, it takes the full damage without any hope of resisting it.

[Grinder]

[Kagetenshi]

No, my comment is based on very little actual knowledge and may be contrary to my actual view when I learn more about it. That said, the idea of making the Horror Stalker more effective, less strange, and less suicidal is contrary to everything I believe hunting Horrors should be about. Like zephir, I am not a big fan of the idea of actually hunting Horrors, and only accepted Horror Stalkers because of, well, how much of a bad idea it was to become one.

~J

[Grinder]

Well, the philosphy of the HS wasn't change - just the talents, to give a HS a small chance to confront more then one Horror in his career. :D