 UCAS is coming? |
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 Jan 28 2007, 09:06 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 6-August 03 From: Polish Ghetto Member No.: 5,342  |
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/164488
Who doesn't want UCAS? Blame Canadians (<Adam bans user: mattness pl> :P ) This post has been edited by mattness pl: Jan 28 2007, 09:07 AM |
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Jan 28 2007, 03:28 PM
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#2
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Yeah I read that... The guy's on crack, his sense of reality is more than a little off.
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Jan 29 2007, 01:31 AM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,654 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 |
I'm not so sure. The bits about Canadian politics went right past me, but I can tell you there's a big rift between the North and the South in America, and the part about the rist of aristocratism is only too plausible.
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Jan 29 2007, 01:39 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
That guy is obviously a Yankee from his hatred of the south. I'd say it has nothing to do with aristocracy and more to do with socialism. The Northeast is much more socialist than the South and Midwest, but even at that it is mostly the big cities where that is dominant. Along those lines I can indeed see the US splitting one day, though if they join with Canada I don't know.
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Jan 29 2007, 05:57 AM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Uh... As someone who's living in the NE, let me just say that this guy is on crack. Fun thought, though. :)
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Jan 29 2007, 06:05 AM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
As someone who lives in the real Northeast :P ;), I'm going to have to disagree. The dreamlike detachment from reality clearly indicates heavy opium use rather than crack.
~J |
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Jan 29 2007, 05:23 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
The fun thing about the intrnet is that _anyone_ can get their 15ms of fame...
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Jan 29 2007, 06:17 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
America will never split. Something majorly messed up would have to happen for that to take place. Present cultural differences aren't strong enough to warrant it, and homogenizing factors like the internet, national television, rapid transportation, new urban areas, economic prosperity, and a shared enemy ("the terrorists") actively work to unify our culture.
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Jan 29 2007, 06:35 PM
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#9
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Care to restrict that to a timeframe? I would say rather that it's almost inevitable that it will split, though whether it will do so in a timeframe meaningful to any of us is much more doubtful.
~J |
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Jan 29 2007, 07:07 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 20-December 05 Member No.: 8,088 |
No offense guys, but under no circumstances do we Canadians want to join with anyone. We're having enough trouble keeping the country together because of Quebec and its elitism.
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Jan 29 2007, 07:23 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
I'm a bit offended by the implication that southerners are all hillbillies who would like to rape and pillage the earth, and would just as soon secede again than work with those northerners.
I mean, sure, they're yankees, and no one likes a yankee, but it's like we're back in the Republic of Texas days again. We just have biker rallies to celebrate it. We don't *want* to secede again. |
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Jan 29 2007, 08:00 PM
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#12
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
edit: nevermind
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Jan 29 2007, 08:10 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
gah, I used the "N" word, didn't I . . . Yes, I don't see America splitting in a time frame meaningful to us, as in the next 5 or 10 generations. Maybe in 10 generations.
If we didn't have an emerging monoculture, things would be different. In America, for instance, we have a big immigrant population and ethnic groups that settle near each other (as is human nature). Without mass media we would be a lot more divisional, I think. A lot of people would rather create ethnic neighborhoods (chinatown, little italy, etc) than assimilate, which really works against unification, even if it does create contrast in the social landscape. |
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Jan 29 2007, 10:19 PM
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#14
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
How very 1982. As one of what Kage called "someone who lives in the real Northeast", Ill agree with him. Someone skipped the crack and went straight to the opium. He does raise some interesting (if highly subjective) points. Ask your avg Georgian what he thinks of someone from Mass. As soon as you remind them that we have the strictest weapons laws in the country (I may be wrong, but I think we use the same standered as Cali), legally recognized gay marriage, and a major biotechnology sector heavily invested in stem cell research, you will get that nice spit of annoyance. Now Ill admit it, for Ma, Im a pretty big hick. I own a shotgun, I fish, I can fix an outboard boat motor, and I have no less then 3 non-running cars on my property(one of which is, indeed up on blocks in the front yard). But having driven though the deep south (Miami to Savannah to Charleston West Virginia) in a car with Ma plates on it, well I won't entertain you with the number of times this Yankee got pulled over for not speeding. Back on track. In some distant future, the US is doomed to break in one way or another. Just the same way the current 1st world global community is as peace. All it takes is a good kick in the nuts to cause history. If its 10 years, or 200. |
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Jan 29 2007, 10:24 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 6-August 03 From: Polish Ghetto Member No.: 5,342 |
- Miami case? I've heard there's more people speaking spanish, than English. - Social breakdown? I don't know how it looks in US, but here, in Poland after 18 years of capitalism Poland is split between rich "Warsaw" and poor Polish B grade. People raised in communism simply don't know, how to act in new environment. Nothing similiar in States? I've read somewhere that 90% of salaries in States is gathered by 10% of population (top management. I've read this statistic after Enron affair). And ordinary americans still believe in American Dream? - and what about this LA racial riots once per decade? This is some new atheistic tradition, like Mardi Gras? Or, a sign, that there is really something wrong... I don't know - I never been in US. Above questions are just questions - if somebody more familiar with US, sociology and States politics can explain why US will merge with Canada some day, or will Balkanize like former Yugoslavia (or maybe "Le Plus la change" and USA will remain unchanged for years to come), I will be grateful. The link in my first post was just excuse to start discussion. This post has been edited by mattness pl: Jan 29 2007, 10:28 PM |
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Jan 29 2007, 10:45 PM
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#16
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Here's how it looks in the US: The people of the United States are the most complacent in the world. There is a powerful conservatism that permeates every layer of society. And yet, the individual American is expected to embrace the gambler's lifestyle. The people of the US are well cognizant of the fact that the United States is the largest and most powerful empire the world has ever seen, and everyone wants in on that action. A very small number of people get all the monies, and society is structured to benefit those people more and more. You'd think this would cause society to collapse.... like yesterday. But ironically it is the glue that holds our society together. We have a series of systems by which very small numbers of people are chosen at random and brought into the wealthy class each year. And while the chances of this making a damn bit of difference to you are very small, the fact that "it could happen" keeps the people of the US coming back to give more tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% year after year. In short, America stands because the people within its borders know very well that the US takes massive amounts of resources from the rest of the world and that there is a tiny but real chance that each individual American might actually get to squandor all of them himself. --- Is this sustainable? Fuck no. But despite the fact that very few people in the United States actually benefit from the system - there are few who would willingly end it. The collapse comes from outside when the rest of the world recognizes that they don't have to send the resources into the US anymore. -Frank |
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Jan 29 2007, 10:52 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 7-May 06 From: Winnipeg Member No.: 8,532 |
I do take offense Crossfire |
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Jan 29 2007, 11:26 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Hey Canada, just take Massachusetts. No charge.
People are very complacent here in the USA. As long as people are being fed and they have cable TV, they're happy. Of course I'm talking about the masses. I think our country is doomed if people don't care more. Of course I'm also the guy who thinks the world is coming to an end, soon. |
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Jan 29 2007, 11:35 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Pretty negative view there. It is true that the upper echelons do have a sizable amount of the wealth, but that usually is the case everywhere. We still have a strong enough middle class to balance them and keep the economy going. However, the middle class is shrinking because of the outsourcing of manufacturing and increasingly white collar jobs. New tax schemes and other things aren't going to help either. The smaller the middle class gets, the more problematic the wealthy having so much of the wealth becomes. I don't agree with the gambler idea though. Most people won't gamble or take many risks. This is one reason they remain employees rather than employers. Rather we are a debtor nation. While people won't gamble, they will run up debts on credit cards, take auto loans and second and third mortgages. There is a tremendous amount of private debt, a few trillion dollars or so. The problem with that is that the debt is a liability. In some cases it is used for productive purposes such as to finance a business. But most often it is used to buy toys and vacations and such. That's bad use of debt. This leads to the second problem. The savings rate in the US is abysmal, less than 1% overall. If we were an equity society rather than a debtor society, people would be saving money and investing. Rather than being in the hole, people would be building up assets. However, the tax code favors debt rather than savings and investment, so that is not likely to change any time soon. Society is staying together so far because the world is still dependant on the dollar and the US markets to dump their excess production. Once that changes, and it will, then the dollar will drop and the economy will have a major correction. It is known that this will happen, but nothing is being done about it because that would require solid action by the politicians and said actions are sure to ruffle some feathers. Politicians aren't about to do that because that might cost them the next election and their phoney baloney jobs. I do see some common ground at least as far as oil goes. We do use rather a lot of that and we are financing through it the terrorists who are attacking us. Nothing new about that: Marx said a Capitalist would sell you the rope you were to hang him with. There are alternatives and better ones than ethanol. However, the government chose ethanol (as a sell out to the corn grower's lobby) and hydrogen (because that is decades away yet). There are plants now that recycle carbon based garbage (farm wastes, tires, sewage) into oil. This would kill two birds with one stone: oil independence and recycling carbon in the system rather than bringing up more from the ground. Not likely to see this either. Last thing I'll point out is that the top 1% of taxpayers pay about 20% of the tax burden and the top 10% about 50%. The bottom 50% of taxpayers pay around 5% of the burden. Those top percentages aren't just the uber-rich fat cats but also small and medium sized business owners that create jobs. Most of the tax income actually now comes from corporations which only makes sense because the US has among the highest corporate rates in the world, which is starting to sting and could become very painful in the near future. So, the bottom 50% of taxpayers could be completely exempt from taxes and the government would lose very little. |
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Jan 30 2007, 01:48 AM
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#20
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
pretty close. In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%. However, this does not equate to tax rates. Both medicare and Social Security have max. taxable income limits. So that top 20% max out at the current 90k or so, and everyone else pays a much higher net percent. |
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Jan 30 2007, 03:56 AM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Yes. As soon as the rest of the countries of the world decide to kill the biggest consumer economy in the world and wreck their own economies in the process, bringing about widespread economic chaos, the collapse will come. I won't be holding my breath, though. :S |
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Jan 30 2007, 05:27 AM
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#22
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Wreck their economies? OK, let me break it down for you:
So the United States provides a "service" to the rest of the world by providing a currency that nations can use to get oil out of OPEC. In exchange for this dubious and in any case entirely belief driven service, the United States takes 1.44% of the world's GDP and sets it on fire every year. But the thing is... the other nations don't actually need the United States to provide a reserve currency. They could just... not do that. They can buy oil in Euros, and in the upcoming months and years they'll totally do that. And then... instead of giving the United States 617.7 billion dollars of their stuff every year... they won't. In fact, they'll have billions of dollars in American Currency with nothing to do with it except exchange it for all our stuff. -Frank |
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Jan 30 2007, 05:32 AM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I don't have a strong enough position on this to enter the fray, but if the US stops taking goods and services produced from other parts of the world, those goods and services need to either find new buyers or stop getting made. That does have some impact.
~J |
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Jan 30 2007, 05:33 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 2-January 07 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,510 |
Which is, of course, the whole basis for money as a medium of exchange. This is the driving force behind economies. |
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Jan 30 2007, 01:38 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
"Some" impact is an understatement... The US GDP of around 13 trillion $ accounts for something like 30% of the world's total GDP. Even if it was all imaginary and belief-based, like Frank claims, its collapse would have an enormous effect. (And all those countries who export much more than they import - in other words, those that are the most dependent on trade - would feel the impact proportionately more.) But all of that means ignoring that fact that the US actually does export huge amounts of non-imaginary goods. It's "only" 2/3 as much as the US imports, but given that the US is the largest importer in the world... |
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