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> Quick draw, how to be the fastest.
djinni
post Feb 1 2007, 08:34 PM
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are reaction enhancers, (or reflex enhancers), and a reflex recorder, the only "upgrades" that increase the dice for it?
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mfb
post Feb 1 2007, 08:44 PM
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aren't there quickdraw holsters in SR4? i could also see a skill being created for it.
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Eryk the Red
post Feb 1 2007, 08:52 PM
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I wouldn't create a distinct quickdraw skill, but it would certainly be a valid specialization. I would probably apply the specialization bonus to the drawing roll and the shooting roll, primarily for fairness. (And because the idea of your best shot happening during a quickdraw is cool and dramatic for a cowboy type character.)
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BlueRondo
post Feb 1 2007, 08:55 PM
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For some reason, I thought Palming could be used for quick-draws. Maybe that was another game.
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lorechaser
post Feb 1 2007, 09:07 PM
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What do you mean by quick draw?

If you simply mean drawing and firing in the same round, you need to get 3 hits on an agi+weapon roll, and then have the highest init. So yeah, reaction boosters are the only real need. If you can't get three hits on agi+weapon consistently, you probably shouldn't be getting in to quick draw contests. ;)

The quick draw holsters lower the threshold on the agi+weapon roll.

And adepts can quick draw anything with the .5 pp power. Which is absolutely amusing.

Me: "I quick draw my MGL-12."

GM: "Uh, you can't."

Me: "Adept, baby!"

GM: "I hate you."

Me: "It gets better. I fire a grenade, then drop it, and quick draw my Stoner-Ares, which I then fire in a long wide burst."

GM: *Pulling out lighter* "Let me see your character sheet"
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Ben
post Feb 1 2007, 11:21 PM
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two words: arm-slide

edit: "hidden arm slide" in fact, but it is rarely really hidden (I don't see how you could hide an Ares Predator IV up your sleeve while wearing a full armor suirů)
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mfb
post Feb 1 2007, 11:40 PM
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see, i view that thing as an excuse to have whatever specialized quickdraw machinery makes sense (loosely speaking). for instance, you could have an underarm holster that tosses your weapon over to your opposite hand. you could have a holster at your lower back that pops the gun out for you to grab. whatever, y'know?
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Ophis
post Feb 2 2007, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
What do you mean by quick draw?

If you simply mean drawing and firing in the same round, you need to get 3 hits on an agi+weapon roll, and then have the highest init. So yeah, reaction boosters are the only real need. If you can't get three hits on agi+weapon consistently, you probably shouldn't be getting in to quick draw contests. ;)

The quick draw holsters lower the threshold on the agi+weapon roll.

And adepts can quick draw anything with the .5 pp power. Which is absolutely amusing.

Me: "I quick draw my MGL-12."

GM: "Uh, you can't."

Me: "Adept, baby!"

GM: "I hate you."

Me: "It gets better. I fire a grenade, then drop it, and quick draw my Stoner-Ares, which I then fire in a long wide burst."

GM: *Pulling out lighter* "Let me see your character sheet"

You got the last line wrong. The GM says - where did you get an extra free action from? Then he has the opposition mage (who avoided the grenade) fireball the grenade launcher on the floor.
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Trigger
post Feb 2 2007, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Ophis)
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Feb 1 2007, 10:07 PM)
What do you mean by quick draw?

If you simply mean drawing and firing in the same round, you need to get 3 hits on an agi+weapon roll, and then have the highest init.  So yeah, reaction boosters are the only real need.  If you can't get three hits on agi+weapon consistently, you probably shouldn't be getting in to quick draw contests.  ;)

The quick draw holsters lower the threshold on the agi+weapon roll.

And adepts can quick draw anything with the .5 pp power.  Which is absolutely amusing.

Me: "I quick draw my MGL-12."

GM: "Uh, you can't."

Me: "Adept, baby!"

GM: "I hate you."

Me: "It gets better.  I fire a grenade, then drop it, and quick draw my Stoner-Ares, which I then fire in a long wide burst."

GM:  *Pulling out lighter* "Let me see your character sheet"

You got the last line wrong. The GM says - where did you get an extra free action from? Then he has the opposition mage (who avoided the grenade) fireball the grenade launcher on the floor.

Nimble Fingers? :D
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Ophis
post Feb 2 2007, 12:28 AM
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Good answer. Have a cookie.
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Trigger
post Feb 2 2007, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (Ophis)
Good answer. Have a cookie.

w00t a cookie :grinbig:
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mfb
post Feb 2 2007, 12:54 AM
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are you sure quickdrawing is a free action in SR4? in SR3, a lot of people make the mistake of thinking it's a free action, when it actually just combines drawing and firing into a single simple action--no free action required. don't recall if that changed in SR4 or not.
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Spike
post Feb 2 2007, 01:02 AM
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I dont' have street magic handy, maybe the power description is 'free action' to quickdraw under the power?

Damn, now I'll have to look this up when I get home! :S
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Trigger
post Feb 2 2007, 01:05 AM
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No it isn't a free action but it does allow you to draw and fire in same simple action...so the scenario above would still work, as you could make two quick draw tests with a threshold of 2 because of the power and use your one free action to drop your first weapon inbetween the shots.
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Thane36425
post Feb 2 2007, 01:15 AM
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West End Games Star Wars had system for handling quick draw. It was this: each character would subtract a number of dice from their weapon skill. They would then roll these dice and the highest total won (or something like that) and got off the shot first.

In SR, you might do the same, but use the number of success rolled to determine first shot. This of course implies that drawing faster would reduce accuracy.

The GM might also allow a Quickdraw special skill to supplement this. The dice from this skill would be added to the other two for: AGI + (skill) + Quickdraw. Yes, that does give an advantage to someone with the skill, but that is as it should be. Many people know how to shoot, but very few bother to pratice quickdrawing in a meaningful way. Think of it as the difference between a skilled Old West shooter and a professional Gunman. The shooter might be able to shoot the hair off a peach, but the gunslinger could do that AND draw his pistol in the blink of an eye.

I would limit the Quickdraw skill to a single weapon. The character could learn it for knives, swords or pistols. That skill would not cross over to any other another type of weapon.
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djinni
post Feb 2 2007, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (Thane36425)
I would limit the Quickdraw skill to a single weapon. The character could learn it for knives, swords or pistols. That skill would not cross over to any other another type of weapon.

that doesn't follow the same line as the other skills...
there isn't one skill for each pistol...
the skill is "pistols" and then you specialize.
if "Quick Draw" was a skill by itself then a specialization would be a specific weapon....knives, other pistol sized objects...
the same prinicple that is drawing and executing an attack quickly.
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Thane36425
post Feb 2 2007, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (djinni)
QUOTE (Thane36425 @ Feb 1 2007, 08:15 PM)
I would limit the Quickdraw skill to a single weapon. The character could learn it for knives, swords or pistols. That skill would not cross over to any other another type of weapon.

that doesn't follow the same line as the other skills...
there isn't one skill for each pistol...
the skill is "pistols" and then you specialize.
if "Quick Draw" was a skill by itself then a specialization would be a specific weapon....knives, other pistol sized objects...
the same prinicple that is drawing and executing an attack quickly.

That's why it is a special skill, because it doesn't follow the standard pattern of the other skills. Quickdrawing a knife is different from quickdrawing a pistol. However, if you learned to quickdraw one pistol, it would pretty much apply to all pistols.
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lorechaser
post Feb 2 2007, 03:40 AM
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But then you're breaking SR4's theoretical streamlined system.

In addition, you're running in to the same issues you get if you break up the weapons - you create so damn many skills you can't reasonably get them all.
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djinni
post Feb 2 2007, 03:43 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
But then you're breaking SR4's theoretical streamlined system.

right and you are no longer playing a cinematic game.
if you wanted to play a realistic game why are you playing shadowrun?
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Thane36425
post Feb 2 2007, 04:02 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
But then you're breaking SR4's theoretical streamlined system.

In addition, you're running in to the same issues you get if you break up the weapons - you create so damn many skills you can't reasonably get them all.

That's why it would be a houserule. Don't use it if you don't want to. There is also no rule saying that all characters will have all skills.
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lorechaser
post Feb 2 2007, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE (Thane36425)
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Feb 1 2007, 10:40 PM)
But then you're breaking SR4's theoretical streamlined system.

In addition, you're running in to the same issues you get if you break up the weapons - you create so damn many skills you can't reasonably get them all.

That's why it would be a houserule. Don't use it if you don't want to. There is also no rule saying that all characters will have all skills.

Well, there is that.

But I'd argue it's an unneeded house rule, because it creates hassles for someone that aren't needed.

You can house rule everything you want, but they won't all be good house rules. ;)

Maybe I need an SLJames type signature here.
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djinni
post Feb 2 2007, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
The quick draw holsters lower the threshold on the agi+weapon roll.

isn't it a "Reaction+Skill" roll? or is there an errata I missed?

all that Aside
Human
Reaction: 6 (9)
Pistols skill: 7(+2) [apptitude](Specialization)
with a Reflex Recorder

rolls 19 dice to "quickdraw"

the general consensus is if I get more hits then I shoot first?
or if my initiative is higher?
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Serial_Peacemake...
post Feb 2 2007, 05:43 AM
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I should point out even with the adept power that lets you quick draw anything you can draw your grenade launch, and then drop it and draw your stoner ares. However you still could not do a long wide burst since you just spent one simple action, and a long wide burst is a complex action. However you could still do a single shot, or a normal burst. It sounds bizarre, but its supposed to be literally magic pushing the human body to do bizarro things. I mean adepts can already do things like not leaving foot steps, seeing in thermographic, being able to hit as hard as a sniper rifle.
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djinni
post Feb 2 2007, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (Serial_Peacemaker)
However you still could not do a long wide burst since you just spent one simple action, and a long wide burst is a complex action.

a long burst is a simple action
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Trigger
post Feb 2 2007, 08:09 AM
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There shouldn't be another skill set or rule set for quick drawing, as there is alreayd a rule for the quickdrawing of pistols, all you need to do is expand the rule to include other types of weapons.

The rule currently is that if you want to draw and attack in the same simple action you roll your Pistol skill plus reaction with a threshold of three. All you need to do to dot he same with another weapon is substitute the weapon skill of that weapon in place of the Pistol Skill. Whoever shoots first is already figured out in you initiative order.
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