Weapon size differentiation, Or why not always use a sniper rifle Options

[sunnyside]

Basically in the rules, if you're going out loaded for bear, there isn't any reason to not use as heavy a weapon as you can carry. Personally I like some differentiation in the weapons so you may want a different firearm in different tactical situations.

Since I'm now trying SR4 I should come up with SR4 based house rules. Let me know what you thing/what you do.

Shooting from cover/around corners

SMG and smaller - no penalty
rifle/shotgun - standard -1
sniper rifle/heavy weapon - -2
(just try it if you don't think weapon length makes a difference)


fireing while in close combat
hold out pistol - -1
light pistol -2
SMG/heavy pistol -3 (standard)
assault rifle/shotgun -4
sniper rifle -6

Again if this does take sense get something that's 1.5 meters long with an imaginary trigger part way back. Let someone stand close to you and then see if you can "shoot" them with it or if you don't get the chance.

[mrlost]

I'm not sure it matters where the trigger is when IMHO everyone of note is going to be using Smartgun Links anyway and firing their personal weapons electronically (especially when firing around corners since that is one of the things that the Smartgun link is for).

My character likes using a Defiance EX Shocker since it can be used as a hand or ranged taser and incapacitates fairly easily without murdering my foes. If I was just interested in doing as much damage to my foe as possible its a forgone conclusion that I'd load up the biggest scariest weapon I could lay my grubby hands on.

[Thain]

I find weight and concealabilty is enough of a limiting factor, without introducing rules that none of us will remember anyway. Weight and conceal modifiers can just be noted on the players sheet, and life move on.

[Serbitar]

And then, there is always the law.

[mrlost]

[ornot]

Maybe I just run and play in fairly low power games, but by far the most common weapon is a heavy pistol (usually with a clip of gel rounds and a clip of regular, APDS or EX-ex ammo). I don't actually have a problem with characters toting SMGs or assault rifles, but they choose not to as those kinds of weapons tend to attract too much attention in town.

[Kyoto Kid]

[Spike]

A great deal of this has to do with what the GM does. If the GM constantly throws fully armored, assualt rifle weilding guards at the players in large numbers, then the players go heavy everywhere.

If the GM lets the players walk around the streets fully strapped for the Yucatan war without the Star falling on them like a ton of bricks, the players will routinely have assualt cannons strapped to their backs.

On the other hand, if the GM keeps the guards light, and only escalates as the players do, then they'll have a good mind to keep a low profile...

[Garrowolf]

Sunnyside, I agree with your point. I do think that there should be some more situational modifiers. Somehow it seems like these modifiers should be giving a bonus to the defender though instead of the attacker but I can see it both ways.

One way I thought about dealing with this giving the defender within a certain range a bonus to parry longarms. Basically it is easier to move it out of the way.

The length of the rifle is causing a problem right now in Iraq in confined quarters. That is why some people favor bullpup configurations. The Israelis are developing a bullpup assualt rifle to replace the M16 for their solidiers.

Now the only real problem I have with your idea is that you have a -2 to firing from cover with a sniper rifle. This is the main way you use them. With cover you have a stable platform. I think that it would improve things for a sniper rifle.

I agree on the close combat and not on the cover part.

[Crusher Bob]

Another problem you have is that any space that a troll can fit in, a man with a rifle can fit just as well or better. So unless you want to give trolls a constant -1 or -2 to their dice pools for being in confined spaces, this won't fly.

[Garrowolf]

Actually Bob I do give Trolls a problem with confined spaces. I also give them a problem with small objects because of their large hands and their dermal deposits make it hard to hold tiny things. I tend to see this and the level of racism against them as balence factors. But on the other paw I give them 2 pts of free RC for their mass and a +2 to intimidation checks.

[sunnyside]

By the way I don't have a problem with stupid PCs who just want to fight. It's just that it would feel more realistic and, if they know they're getting into a fight as occasionally happens, they would have tactical choices to make that might give them more SWAT like layouts.

Plus I always feel a little silly sending out guards with SMGs when assault rifles are wholly superior. I'm sure they don't mind as it's fluffy but there you are.

Or maybe the lesson is that SMGs are only for times when you need to conceal them and shotguns are for full auto on gyromounts.

@ Bob & Garrowulf. The cover modifier isn't for space limitations but the added difficulty to the shot when leaning around a corner or something else unwieldy instead of being able to have a proper grip. I don't and wouldn't advise applying the modifier if the users can fire their weapon in the normal fashion and there just happens to be some cover between them and the target. Similarly I wouldn't impose it if you can properly set up in a window or somesuch.

[Mistwalker]

@Sunnyside

SMGs are a lot easier to get around with for most things. I am not talking about concealability. Getting into or out of a vehicle, moving around in confined spaces, etc..

Assault rifles are usually long and unwieldly in any kind of confined space, like offices, sewers, etc..

That is why tank crews won't be issued with assault rifles, but probably SMGs.

[cristomeyers]

[underaneonhalo]

[cristomeyers]

True, tight spaces call for SMGs and shotguns. Take your Assault Rifles to open spaces for suppressive fire.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

You are aware that the average shotgun is as easy to move around as a rifle?

[sunnyside]

@ mist and crist. I agree and that's what I'm trying to model. Ideally if equiping a team I'd like them(or me) to think things like "Ok we want a couple people with pistols/SMGs in front. One guy with a FA shotgun in case we need to clear a room. A couple guys with assault rifles for midrange/heavier hitting and one sniper rifle in case we need to drop a high rotodrone."

However what I'm wondering is if that's a good way to model things.

[Spike]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

And where does this put short-barrel, folding-stock assaultrifles like the G36C?

[Spike]

[cristomeyers]

I think SR pretty much just calls them carbines and puts them in the SMG category.

[Thain]

[Dashifen]

[Spike]

Thain:

While I understand what your point is, it is rather... er... silly to insist on the exactly correct technical terms at the game table, much less in the book. Common use terms are not the same as technical terms, and lets face it: Clip is common lingo now.

Sure, you and I and a few other gun geeks out there know a clip is a band of metal holding a number of rounds together and is left out of the gun when it's loaded...

but to joe gamer, just like Joe on the street a clip is a box magazine, nothing more and nothing less. Language is fluid, roll with it.

Just like in todays world, the M4 carbine is not technically a carbine at all. But that's what the Army calls it. Good enough for goverment work, I say. ;)