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> Downtime Discrepancies, Bored while others train.
Doc Hopper
post Aug 18 2003, 05:14 PM
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Using the rules found in the Shadowrun Companion, our characters spend time to raise skills and attributes. But what about the characters that are saving up for initiation, or whatnot, do they just sit on their butts for the 2-3 months it may take to raise some other PC's attribute (nobody can afford trainers yet)?

We don't have the game time to do miniruns with some players while others train, so that's not an option. Would it be feasible to say that characters train while on various runs?
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Person 404
post Aug 18 2003, 05:30 PM
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This shouldn't be a problem unless your runs usually last several uninterrupted weeks of game time. Training can be interrupted for a few days without being disrupted. The rules are in the companion.
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Synner
post Aug 18 2003, 06:07 PM
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Sounds like you play a mage (or possibly a PhysAd), try some spell design or some enchanting at the very least it'll do wonders in the way of some extra cash to line your pocket.
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MrSandman666
post Aug 18 2003, 06:12 PM
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Get a Life! Of course your I mean your character. I assume that you already have a life. What does your runner do when he's not running? Interests? Hobbies? Relatives to visit? Friends to meet? A day job? There's gotta be something for him to do when there aren't any runs being offered (or the team is taking a timeout).
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Solidcobra
post Aug 18 2003, 06:17 PM
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day job 3 "flaw"=good timespender, AND it is a flaw you can get ANYTIME you want..... (after getting that anti-sleep bioware it's EASY to work 40 hours per week, you could do it in the first 2 days of the week, and it is enough for a "permanent" medium lifestyle, since you get 5000 per month... wee!)
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Atrox
post Aug 18 2003, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (Doc Hopper)
But what about the characters that are saving up for initiation, or whatnot, do they just sit on their butts for the 2-3 months it may take to raise some other PC's attribute (nobody can afford trainers yet)?

Depends.

Getting a life (or just having one) is one option.

A magically active character "saving up" for initiation might actually spend part of that time meditating, doing minor astral travelling and whatnot. If it's a religious path, appropriate holy days, prayers and such also eat up time. Initiation may happen instantly as soon as you have the points in terms of the rules, but I find it hard to see that doing an extraction advanced your awareness of the magic you wield.

And for physads, training, as in doing katas (not the centering technique), or just doing PT, is a way of life. Same for the gunsels. You don't stay sharp if you don't go to the range and the dojo regularly.
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Talia Invierno
post Aug 18 2003, 08:57 PM
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You know, I've never actually had that problem. Magical or non-magical, it's always been too-little time that's been the kicker, never time sitting heavy on my hands. Things constantly need repair. Next runs need planning. Training (or beginning training, or trying to find someone to give training, or trying to think how to go about trying to find someone). Equipment. Appropriate clothing! that last run really did a number on those boots, and if we're supposed to meet the Johnson there they'll probably kick me out at the door with what I've got to wear. Jobs - when was I supposed to be there again? and what was I supposed to bring? Has the boss forgiven me for having to take off unexpectedly last week yet? Contacts (was Mick having the grand bar re-opening this week, or was it next? and I still have no clue what should I get for him!). We were going to upgrade the team headquarters - can we get that planned vehicle lift installed this week? or the enchanting shop? Do I have a viable personal backup address yet? How about a backup ID?

And finally: what about long-term plans? ... you know, life after shadowrunning?
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Everial
post Aug 18 2003, 10:41 PM
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What? Life after shadowrunning?

What is that?
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Strobe
post Aug 19 2003, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE (Everial)
What? Life after shadowrunning?

What is that?

It's called death.

-Strobe
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FlakJacket
post Aug 19 2003, 01:06 AM
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That or, [voiceclass=German accent]"Sitting on a beach earning twenty percent."[/voiceclass] I hear Hawai'i or the Carib League are popular. ;)
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Ezra
post Aug 19 2003, 02:42 AM
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In my group, when I have this situation. I let the "resting" character just do things like Contact Upkeep, without having to roleplay it.

There is plenty for a well-rounded character to get up to while the others are learning to drive/pushing weights around.

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Drain Brain
post Aug 19 2003, 12:46 PM
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To quote a British Government-sponsored advertisement:

"Those who can, Teach."

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Reth
post Aug 19 2003, 01:28 PM
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Teaching is a good idea!!

'Kay i'm gonna stick my neck out here. Aren't the training rules an alternative to raising skils and attributes the quick way, that is with karma, i mean how else would you explain how Joe Smoe college professor ever got good at what he does??? Lets see, did he have tons of karma?? NO. Did he spend lots and lots of time studying, you know i think he did. As far as i recall it doesn't say that you also have to spend karma in the training rules in SRC. IMO uses of karma to raise skills and attributes represent fx. field training ( running ), Heureka moments...etc. While the training rules represent doing it the way ordinary people do it, y'know the ones without lots of karma. The key phrase here is time, i mean its not like there isn't a downside to doing it the lengthy but karma free way. If you take the example from the first post with its 2-3 months of training time, then that would mean 2-3 months without any substantial pay, and we all know how megacorp Johnsons will respond to a " Yeah i'll do the job in 2-3 months when i'm done training " Now i can understand why GM's would want to limit their PC's access to the training rule, and there are all sorts of ways to do this and most of them have to do with money and time, also consider the impact of a teams street rep. if they consistently only worked every 2-3 months, they might be able to do that once a year maybe, but not after every run or every second run. I'm not saying that you couldn't require them to train a little with the karma buying, but it shouldn't be nowhere near the time required by the SRC training rules, because thats how normal people do it.
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Person 404
post Aug 19 2003, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE
'Kay i'm gonna stick my neck out here. Aren't the training rules an alternative to raising skils and attributes the quick way, that is with karma


Erm, no. The training rules in the Companion still (rightfully) require karma to raise skills and attributes. If they didn't, they would be rather insanely unbalancing.
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Reth
post Aug 19 2003, 03:00 PM
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No they are not, read the rest of the post not just the beginning.

Are shadowrunners disallowed from training and studying like normal people do, ofcourse not, it's just not very easy for them because of the issues of time and money.

It's not unbalancing if you apply the natural limitations the training option that i suggest.

If you take the example with the college professor, then the only way he could become a specialist in his field, if raising his skills cost him karma, is if the act of studying itself actually generated the nescessary karma points, if that is so then then the whole argument is redundant in it self.

Everybody is ofcourse allowed their opinions and interpretations, this is just my opinion and it has never yet unbalanced the game.
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Person 404
post Aug 19 2003, 03:17 PM
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Given that high-level instructors can cut down training time dramatically, and training can be temporarily suspended (i.e. if a run comes up in the middle of training and it's not going to require many days off in a row, training can just be picked up where it left off), I still think that eliminating karma costs from training would lead to some rather ridiculous power increases for very little expenditure.
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Solidcobra
post Aug 19 2003, 03:25 PM
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one problem: je biologist is a NPC, NPCs all have the Edge: "Unlimited Karma"
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Reth
post Aug 19 2003, 03:29 PM
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If that's true why are there NPC ratings then????
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Person 404
post Aug 19 2003, 03:45 PM
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Presumably because biology professors tend to spend karma on increasing things like biology and instruction, rather than pistols and b/r armor. The NPC ratings in the main book (amateur, semitrained, trained, pro) measure stuff like how likely they are to run away after being wounded. No matter how much karma a civilian (ie, not security, runner, etc) NPC has, they're likely to head for the hills when the guns come out. The ratings in the Companion (inferior, superior, ultimate, etc) are likewise meant to be used mainly for the purposes of head-on conflict.

This whole thing is rather moot, though. There are no real hard and fast rules for NPC advancement because, really, there isn't need for them. NPCs will advance as quickly or as slowly as the campaign requires. The only time I can see this coming up is in terms of granting karma to free spirits and karma pool. In the former case, it's again a GM call. As for the latter, adjusting the karma pool of NPCs is often suggested in printed SR adventures as a balancing method. At least to me, this indicates that the exact level of karma that each NPC has really isn't important.

I don't have any problem with you using no-karma training in your games if it works for you, but by the book, the Companion does require PCs to spend karma in addition to time.
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