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> Bringing 2020 to 2065, CP2020 conversion questions
nezumi
post Feb 11 2007, 12:10 AM
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Very complete, thank you! Ultimately I'm not TOO worried, since I'm not selling this, and I'm copying a lot less than previous people have done, but it's good to know.
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nezumi
post Feb 11 2007, 05:32 PM
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As a note, I am encouraging other people to use these (including for SR3R and SOTA65), but I would love feedback on what you use or don't use and what you modify and why, so I can alter things appropriately. For people who are working to help me perfect this, I haven't done spellcheck yet, but will soon. Grammar checking, however, is always helpful, and any other comments you might have on the flavor text. Be mean. Please also tell me if anything I've listed is already covered by the rules. I would prefer to keep my list as lean as possible without actually losing content.

I believe I've finished my weapons list, which I'll post here. I will continue to post updates when I think that particular list is complete.

One more "gun":
[ Spoiler ]


Weapon mods:
[ Spoiler ]


Ammunition types:
[ Spoiler ]


Melee Weapons
[ Spoiler ]



As an aside, I'm currently looking for web space to host the completed text file on. If people have suggestions, I'm very open to them. I don't mind hosting on multiple sites. I also need to think of a better name for my little document. Perhaps something similar to the Street Samurai catalog?
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Mercer
post Feb 12 2007, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (Pendaric)
As to Borgs in SR my take is  NO!
Cyberzombies is a far as you can go for cyber and I think that works fine due to the existence of essence as a concept/rule in SR.
With riggers being able to use anthroform drones a full borg seems just to sci fi for SR reality.

I've been out of the game for a little while, but when I was running regularly I used all the Chrome Books I had (1-5, I believe) as well as a CP Weapons Guide. I've never played CP2020, so my statting out of the things I was using was mostly blind guesses.

Full-Borgs were one of the things I used, at least in a modified form. SR already has full-body replacements; you've got cyberarms and cyberlegs, and going back to Cybertechnology (2e even), you have the torsos and skulls. It isn't exactly like the CP2020 'borgs, but its close, and there's no reason why the full-body replacement can't look more-or-less like whatever you want it to.

Full-Body Replacements, FBR's or Fubars, were something I used in my SR: Africa campaign, as one of the many experiments the corps were doing with military hardware. They were never terribly effective, but I figured it was early on in the development of the technology. They were the Model T's of the full 'borg conversions. But they looked cool, and the Africa game was a anything goes sort of thing.

I also ran the CP module Eurotour, which I really liked. (I never liked any of the SR modules.) I converted it mostly on the fly, substituing helicopters for aerocars and eyeballing the stats.

By the by, for those that might know, a lot of npcs in that module had a piece of cyber known as the Midnight Lady implant. What was that? Also, the cybereye mod called the Times Square, anyone?

The thing I liked most about the Chromebooks was the slice of life stuff. Bioluminescent tattoos and the like. SR books tended to concentrate on runner's gear (oddly enough), I liked the stuff in CP that was the sort of thing normal people would use (like the home gym with the VR port so that you thought you were at the beach relaxing while you were working out).
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nezumi
post Feb 12 2007, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Mercer)
SR already has full-body replacements; you've got cyberarms and cyberlegs, and going back to Cybertechnology (2e even), you have the torsos and skulls.



The difference is that in SR, a full cybernetic body leaves you worse off than if you were just a normal twit on the street. Your Body and Strength are a little higher, but you can hardly accept any cyberware any more because your essence is almost in the hole, you light up every cyberware scanner in the city, and you're almost half a million in the hole. You don't get any bonuses, no resistance to poison or super leaping ability. You're just metal. It sucks.

QUOTE

By the by, for those that might know, a lot of npcs in that module had a piece of cyber known as the Midnight Lady implant.  What was that?  Also, the cybereye mod called the Times Square, anyone?


Midnight lady is the female version of Mr. Studd. It means she had a cybernetic hoo-haa, and that gives a bonus to Seduction rolls. Times Square rolls a marquee across the cybereye (I forget if it's visible only to other people or visible only to the user though. I think it's visible only to the user, so it's sort of like the existing Display Link in SR3).

QUOTE
Bioluminescent tattoos and the like.  SR books tended to concentrate on runner's gear (oddly enough),


And that is precisely why I'm undertaking this project, to add equipment that isn't especially for runners (although I'm not grabbing the home gym. Anything that's already doable with SR rules, I'm leaving out.)
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Mercer
post Feb 13 2007, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
You don't get any bonuses, no resistance to poison or super leaping ability. You're just metal. It sucks.

Well, that's why the corps were forcing Fubars on test subjects in Africa rather than selling them in Seattle (its also by I called them "fubars"). I did change the rules a bit so that FBR's could get enhanced stats, better initiatives and the like. I didn't bother with Essence costs for bodyware, just the pieces that required DNI's, which made it possible to make tricked out FBR's like the Spyder and the big scary guy with the Vindicator on the shoulder mount. But like I said, it was fairly early on in the development of the technology, so it worked for me that it was inefficient. (It didn't help that the FBR's were always going crazy and having to be hunted down like rabid, cybernetic dogs with Vindicator Miniguns for arms. Actually, it did help a little, because that was the basis for a run or two.)

The Mr. Studd I figured out, you know, contextually, but its nice to finally know what a Midnight Lady is (I had guessed some sort of contraceptive device, though why it would be cybernetic I have no idea.) Are there any rules for combining a Midnight Lady implant with that cyberjaw that lets you bite through encyclopedias? (I'm just asking.)
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post Feb 13 2007, 01:29 PM
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I agree that full borgs are a reasonable proposition for SR given the existing cyberware.

QUOTE (Mercer @ Feb 13 2007, 06:39 AM)
(It didn't help that the FBR's were always going crazy and having to be hunted down like rabid, cybernetic dogs with Vindicator Miniguns for arms.  Actually, it did help a little, because that was the basis for a run or two.)


Did you have rules for this or determine it by GM fiat? Were players full borgs or just NPC's?
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Pendaric
post Feb 13 2007, 02:45 PM
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By full borg do you mean Robo cop or Ghost in a shell brain in a jar? The first has alraedy been done and it is a cyber zombie, the latter is dead.
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nezumi
post Feb 13 2007, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Mercer)
Are there any rules for combining a Midnight Lady implant with that cyberjaw that lets you bite through encyclopedias? (I'm just asking.)

You are a scary, scary person. No, I had not considered rules for putting teeth in unusual places, and that is one of my few personal phobias. That and vaginal snakes (which DO exist in CP2020, but I'm not porting them over here).

By full borg, it's basically the latter. The brain and a number of vital organs are removed and plugged into a cybernetic body. It sort of breaks the essence rules, because essence costs are based on the idea of adding a piece of cyber to an existing body, not adding a body to an existing piece of cyber.
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post Feb 13 2007, 03:22 PM
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Full-Body Replacements is probably more accurate, I don't exactly know what a full borg is but these are the terms used in this thread.

A cyberzombie is someone with a negative essence, with delta 'ware a FBR should be able to avoid this.
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Mercer
post Feb 13 2007, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE
You are a scary, scary person.


Thats very kind of you to notice. It does make me wonder what sort of seduction bonus you get from having a cybernetic hoo-haa, since it seems most people aren't going to know that until they are pretty well seduced. Maybe the bonus comes from walking up to them and saying, "I have a cybernetic hoo-haa." (That would probably work on me.)

I thought of a couple of ways to do FBR's, including rigger adapting the brain and the few vital organs and sticking them in an anthroform drone. There's no real benefit to that from a character perspective, but I was treating as that corps weren't sticking people's brains in giant robots for the good of the test subjects. (In my game, Africa was where the corps were doing the experiments that even pushed the limits of their extraterritoriality.)

I think the full body package (2 arms, 2 legs, torso and head) comes out to 6.25 Essence, so you can squeeze it in by Alpha'ing the torso or two of the limbs. Thats a pretty barebones package though, all you can really do with that is stack on the hardened armor and put a cybergun in each limb (for breakdance fights). It was never terribly effective, and it was never the sort of thing a pc would willingly do, but it achieved my short term goal of having big scary robot-like madmen cavorting about. Good times.
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nezumi
post Feb 14 2007, 05:08 PM
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I'm going to continue posting stuff up even though no one seems to care too much... because it's my thread!! Like I said, this is still in its initial stages. Please, comments are welcome.

Chemicals & Nanotech
[ Spoiler ]



Armor
[ Spoiler ]


Fashion mods
[ Spoiler ]


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Pendaric
post Feb 16 2007, 02:45 PM
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I think in the case of the Cyberdeck Utility Suit the barrier rating should be reduced. I doubt some one would really have structural material comfortable amassed about their person. We are taking 15mm+ of steel so up the weight if you really want to keep it at 12.
The Ciampolo gloves/boots seem a little to advanced for SR nano tech, so perhapes uping the cost. The same applies to the small wonder nanoteck.
Everything else looks fine.
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Pendaric
post Feb 16 2007, 02:50 PM
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There is also some overlap with existing SR equipment as well. There is already a sonic rifle Sota 64 or perhapes 63.
The word activation for a gun exists in cannon comp and pure DNI firing could be translatd via a smart link.
Hope this is helpful.
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nezumi
post Feb 16 2007, 04:01 PM
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You've been more helpful than you know. On the most basic level, I've begun wondering if I'm whistling in the dark, since no one seems interested :P And you are certainly correct on most of your points. The nauseator gun is gone (it's in SOTA64, I had completely forgotten about it). I can't find the word activation for a gun though, I'll have to keep searching. The DNI firing is not actually canon, although someone here (perhaps you) suggested it as neat color text and I liked it. That change may be pending.

You're right on the deck casing. I don't know why I thought 12. Reading the Matrix book (where I should have started :P ) casing starts with a barrier rating of 3 and can go up to 12. I guess I'll drop it down to 6, which seems like a reasonable compromise between weight and armor, and 8 for the helmet (since a helmet is going to be heavy protection). Does that sound more reasonable?

I doubled the cost and SI on the gloves. They don't seem too overpriced to me, since we technically use nanotech now to make stain-resistant pants (and I was imagining it along those lines, not that it's actual functioning nano-tech). Small Wonders I've been on the fence on. It is a trivialization of SR nanotech. I'm not sure if I should include them at all, even though they would only serve to add color. I'll up them to 800 and consider.

Yes, thank you for the comments. They're definitely needed! Like I've said, I'm starting to wonder if it's wasted effort on my part though. Not a lot of people seem interested. I'll try to slide them in with SOTA65, but beyond that... *shrug*
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Platinum
post Feb 16 2007, 09:00 PM
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Keep up the good fight Nez. I am interested. I am just not sure how to help. I have only been glancing at the thread and have no idea what it is you would need. If it is encouragement, I will offer that, and say that I am looking forward to this.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Feb 16 2007, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
I can't find the word activation for a gun though, I'll have to keep searching.

Cannon Companion, page 81.
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nezumi
post Feb 16 2007, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
QUOTE (nezumi @ Feb 16 2007, 11:01 AM)
I can't find the word activation for a gun though, I'll have to keep searching.

Cannon Companion, page 81.

Huh, thanks. I never would have looked there! Alright, well let me cut that one off.

To answer Platinum's question, yes, part of it is the knowledge that all of this work won't go to waste. I know I've wanted something like this for ages, but it's good for me to know that it will move beyond that.

Beyond that though, unlike some members here, I am only a single monkey working on a single typewriter, so, as has been shown, I sometimes miss little things or don't assign reasonable values to things. I would prefer that those simple problems be caught at this stage, when its in development, rather than when I go through the work of posting it to the world and people find these things and say 'eh, this is overpowered, I don't feel I can trust this list' or 'this list includes nothing relevant to my interests'. So basically, the question I would ask you is 'would you use it, and if not, why?'
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Drraagh
post Feb 18 2007, 03:47 PM
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One of the things I quite enjoyed about CP2020 was the flavor of it. Not just the gear and everything, but the fact it was a more realistic experience, and even some stuff like prayer wear, clothing lineups, stuff like that. Removable cyberfingers, prayerware... There was a lot of atmosphere in CP2020, a lot of punk that didn't make it to SR until recently. For more of what I mean, check out Cyberstyle.
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nezumi
post Feb 20 2007, 07:34 PM
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Neat site. I do actually incorporate a few of his ideas, although his emphasis is more on setting, whereas mine is on equipment. A full blurb on describing the world would be interesting, although I'm hesitant to undertake it, since I know there are so many different opinions on how it should go. I'd rather make stuff I think 70% of GMs would be happy to use than something only 30% would use (yes, I'm being optimistic, I know).

Anyway, continuing on...

Linear Frames (also listed in SOTA65)
[ Spoiler ]


Personal Electronics
[ Spoiler ]


"Survival" Gear
[ Spoiler ]
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Herald of Verjig...
post Feb 20 2007, 08:02 PM
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I remember seeing a link a while back that was a low light contact lense being developed for military use that is powered soley by some rare earth magnet specks stuck to the inside of the wearer's eyelid. But for game balance issues and such, I see nothing wrong with the 1 hour per charge.

How does the recharging work for any of the external senseware?
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cetiah
post Feb 20 2007, 08:35 PM
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Lead's Show-off nails and canvasware hardly needs their own entries, do they? Why not just have some generic color-shifting gloss-device thingie that can replace any implanted parts you want. You could have color-shifting nails, or skin, or hair, or, umm... other stuff.

I don't understand the communications flopscreen either. Why not just have a generic "flexible, plastic display screen" that displays anything you want from your comlink? It seems far too limited.

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Pendaric
post Feb 20 2007, 08:53 PM
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I like everything but the contact lenses, in sot 64 they have low light contact lenses unpowered that burn out in bright light.
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nezumi
post Feb 20 2007, 09:04 PM
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I had noticed them the other day, and I thought that was cool. However they don't have something like say a display link contact lens, or just a color shifting contact lens. So this would allow for a wider range of 'contact lens technology'. It's a feature that appears in SR4, but not SR3.

Does that change your answer at all?
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Pendaric
post Feb 20 2007, 09:12 PM
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Sorry no. I don't believe the cyber would fit a contact lense and it removes the need for implantation, either full cyber eyes or just retinal mods.
Colour shifting would be cool, have had a few characters walk my game with changing eye colours. Mostly cyber eyes but some bio or magicaly produced.
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nezumi
post Feb 20 2007, 09:54 PM
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Would it be acceptable if the essence amount were reduced to .1? This would still allow for some of the functionality, but aside from those truly minor things and low-light (from SOTA64), it really couldn't compare to cyber.

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