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Scandalous
post Feb 11 2007, 02:03 AM
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Can you take a geas for essence loss due to cyberware/bioware and retain that magic point?
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Sir_Psycho
post Feb 11 2007, 03:27 AM
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I've always wondered that too.
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Thain
post Feb 11 2007, 04:06 AM
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Not quite. That was how it worked in older editions, but geas have been tweaked in Street Magic. They now make sense! :rotate:
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NightmareX
post Feb 11 2007, 10:20 AM
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They always made sense to me in previous editions [shrug]
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Butterblume
post Feb 11 2007, 11:40 AM
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With the reduced cost for most cyber/bioware it would probably just to good to geas essence loss. And that's only with the stuff from the basic rules, who knows what excellent ware might be in augmentation.
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Scandalous
post Feb 11 2007, 01:54 PM
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So what the verdict yes you can or no you cant?
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Butterblume
post Feb 11 2007, 02:11 PM
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No, you can't. I thought someone answered that question already, but I see no one did :P.
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Thain
post Feb 11 2007, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (NightmareX)
They always made sense to me in previous editions [shrug]

It doesn't make sense based on what a geas is in Irshi folklore (the orgin of the term).Normally a geas is a kind of bond that someone (including the gods) can be placed under; it normally took the aspect of a taboo or prohibition.

Geasa are kind of comparable with curses, as the bearer is compelled to follow them, and if you break a geasa, you would suffer serious dishonour or even death, depending on how the geas was worded.

Look at the myth of Cúchulainn, the demi-god hero. His geasa included both an obligation to accept any meal offered to him, and a ban against eating dog meat. His enemies force him to break one of these geasa by the simply offering him a meal of dog meat. In this way he was spiritually weakened and in the battle that followed, he was killed.

Geasa never made sense to me as a "Get Your Magic Back" trick. The SR4 version is aot more true to the mythology.
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NightmareX
post Feb 11 2007, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Thain @ Feb 11 2007, 10:10 AM)
It doesn't make sense based on what a geas is in Irshi folklore (the orgin of the term).Normally a geas is a kind of bond that someone (including the gods) can be placed under; it normally took the aspect of a taboo or prohibition.

Oh if you're taking geasa in the original RL context I can totally see why they wouldn't make sense. However, like the tradition differences in the UMT thread, it is another matter of SR geasa != RL geasa.

What edition did you start under btw? Cause in the 1st edition Grimoire they explained it nicely that as Magic was lost, the magician would pick up actions etc to keep up his power, which would become bonds. Since geas = bond, it basically comes down to a wordplay of sorts. This is one of the things I find lacking in the latter books - the lack of in-game explanation of why the terms etc are used contributes to the huh? factor for new players.

Also, by way of SR explanation:

QUOTE (Thain)
His geasa included both an obligation to accept any meal offered to him,
a ban against eating dog meat.


Condition geasa both. He eats his namesake, and is down one point of adept powers (Mystic armor? Increased 'flexes?) - which happens to make all the difference. 8)
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Scandalous
post Feb 11 2007, 03:39 PM
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Sounds good to me No geasa for essence loss.
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Thain
post Feb 11 2007, 03:51 PM
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NightmareX I agree with you that SR != RL, I've said that explictly on the UMT thread. (Just before kicking off a micro-anticatholic-flame-war. ;) ) For what its worth, I started with SR1, and only SR1. Sourcebooks? We don't need no stinkin' sourcebooks! (Plus, they hadn't been published yet. I'm an old geezer. Get off my lawn.)

But it bugged me that for three editions, FASA used the word geasa to describe a benefit (gettinglost magic back). When in every sense of the word, a geas should be a hinderance. (Break the ban, suffer the effects.) Sure, I went along with it. I even made my share of characters that used it. But I was bitter. :P

Over the years, Shadowrun has gotten a lot of little "wordplay" thigs wrong. Don't even get me started on "clips" for guns. Ugh.

But, in SR4 geasa are hinderances agian, not benefits... and there was much rejoicing.

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NightmareX
post Feb 11 2007, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (Thain)
(Just before kicking off a micro-anticatholic-flame-war. ;) )

Would have been more interesting if we were actually discussing religion - apostates like myself who enjoy discussing religion tend to make for interesting conversation when that topic comes up. 8)

QUOTE
For what its worth, I started with SR1, and only SR1. Sourcebooks? We don't need no stinkin' sourcebooks! (Plus, they hadn't been published yet. I'm an old geezer. Get off my lawn.)

Heh - join the club, senility's kicking in on this end ;)

QUOTE
But it bugged me that for three editions, FASA used the word geasa to describe a benefit (gettinglost magic back). When in every sense of the word, a geas should be a hinderance. (Break the ban, suffer the effects.) Sure, I went along with it. I even made my share of characters that used it. But I was bitter. :P

Understandable I guess. Personally, I liked the old way of doing things, so I reinstituted geas taking to stave off Magic loss. Of course I also reinstituted all the old interesting ways of loosing Magic too :evil:

QUOTE
Don't even get me started on "clips" for guns. Ugh.

That's more of a pop culture problem than SR specific I think.

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StealthBanana
post Feb 11 2007, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE
Don't even get me started on "clips" for guns. Ugh.


What's wrong with detachable box magazines?

EDIT: or are you annoyed by the usage of the term 'clip' to refer not to a helpful device to load said magazines, but to the magazine itself? I don't know if that made sense.
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Thain
post Feb 11 2007, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (StealthBanana)
QUOTE
Don't even get me started on "clips" for guns. Ugh.


What's wrong with detachable box magazines?

EDIT: or are you annoyed by the usage of the term 'clip' to refer not to a helpful device to load said magazines, but to the magazine itself? I don't know if that made sense.

The only gun in SR4 that could, conceivably, uses clips is the Ruger Super Warhawk. Butmoon clips aren't in the rules. Every other gun uses box magazines, internal magazines, or belts. It bugs me.
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StealthBanana
post Feb 11 2007, 08:00 PM
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Oooh, I see. You mean like the 30 round 'clip' Fichetti Security? That kind of annoyance?

I feel your pain :)
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2bit
post Feb 12 2007, 04:58 PM
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Hmmm. . . I never played geasa for magic lost due to essence. If that was an official rule in previous editions, that's news to me.
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