Cyberware, the SR3R way Options

[Platinum]

Although I agree that the boost for the matrix to come from cyberware, I think that should be the rating of the datajack instead of an encephalon. I know it is a reflection of how prevalent datajacks are but they should really cost more. The more through put, the more dice you get, but decks should also have a rating ...and the lower of the two ratings would determine your init dice.

rating essence price
1 .1 2500
2 .2 5000
3 .5 15000
4 1 35000

If you want to be novahot ... you would defintely get more invasive wires to pay the price for your craft. I would submit that the encephalon could give you a reaction boost in the matrix.

Can someone please explain to me why there is only a +10 reaction limitation in the matrix? Think we can pull the lid off of this? Have subprocessors on the server that will give a comporable boost to IC so that PC's are not cake walking

[Lindt]

Im going to add my support to the idea of an installed cyberlimb having a default str and qui of racial max. I mean it makes sense, your replacing puny flesh and bone with high tech alloys and mystery power sources. If you want to exceed that, sure, but its going to get vastly more expensive unless you get a full cyber torso to brace all that against. After a point what good is having biceps that look like cars parking, when every time you flex your tearing your pecks apart.

I also would like to see a reason for the obvious vs synthetic bit we have going on now. Obvious would perhaps be cheaper/stronger/faster, where as the synthetic would be the more expensive, but essence friendly choice (but have less ACU).

As for the Enecphalon, I remember it being substantially more badass in Sr2...

[Eyeless Blond]

[Eyeless Blond]

[Kyoto Kid]

...I believe in addition to adding to task and hacking pool, it also increased intelligence by +1 at level 2 & +2 at level 3

[Platinum]

Eyeless had the gist of that KK, since well they have been here for a super long time ...

but here is what is says

[Eyeless Blond]

Huh, so it had a, what would that be, a limited skillwires set/knowsoft link in addition to the SR3 benefits? Hmm. Interesting, though to be frank I still think the Math SPU is cooler. And that, right there, is the problem: as it stands the Encephalon is basically a far more expensive and invasive version of the SPU, with a few minor benefits attached that aren't really all that great. I'm reminded of, well frankly like 90% of the magic items in D&D. :P

[Platinum]

I think the sr3 version of the encephalon is well, stupid. and sr2 version is a little limited.

I think that it would allow you to multitask in a huge way. You can perform multiple operations at the same time. I was pretty sure that some actions in the matrix are exclusive actions (meaning nothing else could be done at the time) but ... I think the encephalon should be able to process these exclusive actions for you and allow you to perform other actions as required. i.e. not sure if it is exclusive or not, but decrypting a file..... if it was exclusive the encphalon can continue to crack it while you take on that pesky tar baby. it would not give you extra actions ... but it would process exclusive actions for you. the extra hacking pool is ok, although a math spu is better bang for the buck.

[Eyeless Blond]

Heey, now there's an idea! Maybe the Encephalon can take over control of various monitored operations for you, without having to sacrifice the action(s)* necessary to maintain it. Each level, besides providing another point of Int for skill-learning purposes and the Task Pool, would take over another monitored operation for you. Or maybe two per level, with the max. Encephalon rating at 2? That way, cost would be the same as SR3 prices.

This way we can go with that tiered datajack idea above. I still think the first level should cost 1,000Y, just to underscore how easily available it is, but the rest should step up more quickly:

[Eyeless Blond]

Hm, still thinking those prices don't scale well. Maybe...

[Platinum]

I am fine with those essence and price costs .... I was expecting to hear everyone freak out at them. I suggested that once before ... about a year ago, and I am just getting over the nightmares and no longer cry myself to sleep.

I think that deckers don't really pay enough for their craft other than time.

[Eyeless Blond]

Time and/or cash. But then, paying in Essence isn't such a big cost either, unless you plan on being a decker/mage.

[Kagetenshi]

Or a Decker/Samurai, or a Decker/Rigger, or really anything else but a Decker/Face. Lots of other archetypes use that sweet, sweet Essence.

~J, posting while half-conscious

[Eyeless Blond]

Point. Well then Kag, what's your opinion on the proposed new Encephalon and levelled Datajack?

[Graiser]

• One. The early Encephalon was Really powerful. If you had it, you could skip on getting a knowsoft, (you'd still need a skillwire system, if I recall correctly. Books in a different building and I'm not hauling a double wide typing paper box of books around, to cross-check at this time.) It added to Int, (which effects reaction, remember,) gave you limited Knowsoft ability, datasoft ability, and a task pool. (And if you believe Fastjack, allows you to multi-task.)
  
  Granted, a full point of essence JUST for a one point increase of Int seems absurd, but that quoted text came from a SR1 book, when muscle replacement was still a common choice.
  
  I don't recall the thing being able to partially replace the VCR, however.
  
  
• Two. I remember the variable datajacks. I don't know why they got rid of them. Probably because bandwidth rules made so much sense, but who wanted to sit and factor that into an already math-intensive dice-roll game.
  
  
• Three. In my mind, putting the datajacks close to where they were linked up was an early tech solution to the problem of laying wires. You're doing clerical work? Stick it in the temple. Fewer wires to lay, (with gene-tinkered bacteria guided by a magnetic hologram, remember.) Oh, a driver? Let's just stick it behind the ear so it's closer to the VCR processor. Now, with the cheapening of the tech, such that the expense of putting it anywhere you want would probably be trivial to the total cost of the datajack, I figure it's now more a matter of culture. Truckers and TBird pilots stick their jacks behind their ear so you know who they are. Everyone else goes with the temple solution. My opinion only.
  
  Of course, they do price the wire to run DNI linked gear elsewhere in the rules...
  
  
• Four. Something to remember about cyberware is...if the authors couldn't think of a criminal use for it, or one that appealed to the setting, (nightlife), they didn't write it in. SR1 and ShadowTech had gear just for rockers and reporters that was left out of later editions. Cybernetic control of an instrument for one, and a smartgun type cyberware for camera control for another. There is bound to be other cybernetic enhancements that never made the shadowfiles, just because they only made life easier for civilians, or livible for a tiny minority. Synthetic or bio-engineered pancreas's anyone? How about a cybernetic kidney?
  
  
• Five. Someone complained that some things cost essence out of proportion to how much brain connection it has. Essence was presented as being tied to how invasive the system was. Getting your bones electroplated is pretty invasive.
  Of course, we can all realize out of game that the real point is game balance.
  
  
• Five points. I better skip the rest. It'd just kill the thread to flood it with too much opinion at once. I don't want to do that.

Of course...I would like to propose one piece of overlooked cyberware. the DNI recessing datajack. Think, and it retracts out of sight. Perfect for those social circles where even a skullplug is considered uncouth, and you don't need a separate dongle to get use out of it. For game balance, it should be a bit more expensive than the induction model, (since with it, you can lose the dongle,) but probably not as much as actually sticking a datajack in a body cavity with a separate DNI tie-in.

Good luck,
Graiser

[edit: Replaced non-functioning HTML tags with equivalent BB tags. Then to clean up spacing, (I hope,) and clarify one bullet.]

[Platinum]

1 it was ok ... but not really over balancing. Sure it allowed you access to knowsofts but you still have to have memory or a chipjack to run the thing, and it's not like a level 1 encephalon would allow you access to a rating 6 knowsofts.

The skillwires were for any related skill, where you required physical activity.

so you could design a car with build and repair ... but cannot perform an oil change as that would be an activesoft .

There was nothing about it replacing a VCR anywhere. (I think we were talking about it performing the exclusive actions that a rigger requires for him)

Variable datajacks only factored in I/O which as you said was more math, but I think tying response increases to the jack makes sense. more invasiveness for more speed.

Why get a cyber kidney, when they can grow you a new one. that was right from shadowtech. You could also get the nymphrytic screen which was cyberware that helped with filtering, also shadowtech. 1st ed.

The recessing jack is basically a subdermal jack. which is in the system.

flood flood flood .... keep posting more ideas, make for less rewrites later.

[Graiser]

[Eyeless Blond]

To stay slightly on topic here, do the Encephalon and tiered datajack look okay as is? Does anyone want to propose a different price? Let's put it to a vote, and if these changes work (along with the changes to initiative they imply) then we can move on to cyberlimbs and the VCR (though we should have a Vehicle thread for that too)

[Eyeless Blond]

Going once? Going twice? Shall we move on to cyberlimbs?

[Kagetenshi]

I need to actually think about this one, so it may take a few more days :) but don't let that stop you from considering cyberlimbs.

~J

[nezumi]

I also have to put off reviews of equipment. I'm sort of in the "treading water" stage, due to problems at home. But continue on and I'll get back to it.

[fistandantilus4....]

This thread, and the other SR3R threads are being moved over to Community Projects. The original Shadowrun 3rd Revised thread will remain in the Shadowrun forum. They're getting quite a lot of traffic and are sticking to the top of the Shadowrun forum, but would be more appropriately placed in Community Projects.

[Graiser]

From a gaming, dark-cyberpunk, standpoint, ignore what I'm about to say.
From a why-not standpoint...

I know why they aren't in the game, but if we developed ASSIST-interactive cyberlimbs and 'trode-rigs, SOMEONE would put the two together. Especially if there was some non-recoverable essence loss with installation.

Then fewer people would have permanent limbs, as they'd get a replacement cloned after the loss, and use a "loaner" in the meantime.

The only fix for this would be if cyberlimbs were superior than natural limbs in enough peoples minds. Either by being significantly cheaper, or providing significantly more capability. Additionally, if that capability wasn't typically non-threatening, a cyberlimb would be the mark of a criminal.
If the cyberlimb was typically cheaper than a flesh limb, it'd be a mark of the down and out.

With the above in mind, I'd recommend making cyberlimbs cheaper than flesh, period, making them inconceivably stylish, (in the pattern of many current fashions that are derived from a wrong-side-of-the-tracks subculture,) and making most additions for cyberlimbs free, including a free router and DNI hookups for what it contains.

Just food for thought.


Edit:
Assign some additional essence that a cyberlimb may act as a cost adjuster to. This could easily be based on the same ratio as enjoyed by cybereyes, (that is, that a cybereye will hold an additional number of mods of essence equal to some value.) Personally, I'd either go with a number that is less than the cost of the arm itself, or more, but with the proviso it usually only absorbs half the cost, not the whole thing, like smartgun links used to be.

Even if it were more, significantly more, enforcing the capacity unit rules introduced in SR3 SHOULD reduce too much twinking, but some elements should not fit anyway. Say anything over 2 essence automatically is brainware exclusive and can't be installed in a cyberlimb or torso, with only a price-reduction available with a cyberskull.

[Eyeless Blond]

Nothing else to say about mental init boosting, and the encephalon bs. the tiered datajack? Okay, then, so back to cyberlimbs

[Graiser]

Sounds good.

I'd go with the maxiumum unmodified limits for the given character, (6's for human), as the starting ability. The skeleton would probably adapt to the extra strength in a matter of weeks, within limits. As should the other musculature.

I suggest, if you go with your initial idea, giving some lesser kickback for metal-laced skeletons as well.

Remember, even if you CAN lift it with your arm, if you can't stand with it, you're stuck. It doesn't matter if your spine can take the abuse or not, at that point.

Good luck,

Graiser