Hostages, Better known as meat shields... Options

[Eryk the Red]

How would folks work this ruleswise?

I've got a guy holding another guy (alive but unconscious), using him as a body shield. If another character chooses to shoot at the guy holding the hostage, how should I work this? A cover bonus doesn't seem right (it doesn't take into account the very real possibility of hitting the hostage). Not sure how to handle it.

Any ideas? Simpler is better.

[fistandantilus4....]

I'd say factor in the cover, perhaps another -2 for fear of hitting the hostage (unless they really don't care). Then apply a threshold of say 2. If they miss the threshold, they hit the hostage.

That's off the top of my head.

[Eryk the Red]

Maybe. I was also thinking that a big part of cover is that you can't see your target, so you don't know where to shoot, and thats hardly the issue here. So no cover. Instead, they can just shoot through the hostage, at no penalty, but the hostage suffers damage also, and the hostage's armor is added to the target's own. Like shooting through a barrier. If the shooter wants to avoid the hostage, it's a called shot. That might be the simplest way. Does that seem balanced?

[Backgammon]

Yeah, sounds reasonable.

For the effect of shooting through the hostage, I'd make it Armour x 2 + half body. Armour x 2 because you are shooting through the armour in the front, then through the armour in the back. Plus a bit of loss of force due to the actual body.

[Eryk the Red]

Actually, I think some compromise of our two ideas would be best, because I like the idea of accidentally hitting the hostage, rather than definitely hitting him or definitely not.

[HullBreach]

I believe you use their body as the barrier rating, but Im not 100% on that. Humans are surprisingly good at stopping bullets, just not at surviving the stopping therof.

[Kyoto Kid]

...some unforgettable lines from the cinema on the subject...

[Harry Temple] All right, pop quiz. Airport. Gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover; he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away. Jack?

[Jack] Shoot the hostage.

...later...

[Harry Temple] You shot me, I can't believe it. They're giving you a medal for shooting me, you little prick!

[Jack] Harry... you TOLD me to.

[FrankTrollman]

I'd make it a called shot with cover bonuses for the defender anyway.

So you'd be down a couple of dice and the defender would be up a couple of dice. If you didn't care whether the hostage was hit or not (for example, he's carrying a dead body), I'd just give the cover modifier to the defender.

-Frank

[ShadowDragon]

I like the idea of a threshold of 2. If they beat the threshold AND have net hits after your dodge, they hit you. If they have net hits after your dodge but they don't beat the threshold, they hit the hostage.

If the bullet is strong enough, treat the body as a barrier. If they're afraid of hitting the hostage, then they get a dice penalty, but I don't think a cover modifier is appropriate here because that's too hit or miss. The hostage should have a reasonable chance of getting hit. Combining a cover bonus and the threshold is too much when a threshold of 2 already simulates a -6 penalty.

I'd probably also include a str/bod test to hold on to the hostage without taking penalties to reaction and agility.

[Thane36425]

Cover would apply because it doesn't just mean not being able to see the target, but that something is in the way. For example: if someone is shooting at you around a corner and all you can see is their head and shoulders for good cover. The - 4 penalty to shoot them implies that you are trying to hit them and not shoot through the cover to get them. Even shooting through the cover would add the penalty, unless it was a clear barrier like armored glass, plus the usual barrier rules.

So, a person holding a hostage would apply the -4 for good cover, and the suggested extra -2 for fear of hitting the hostage wouldn't be a bad idea. If you miss the target, the odds of hitting the hostage would be good in most cases. You could also apply modifiers for differences in target size. A human holding a human of roughly the same size should use the base modifiers, but a troll holding an elf should be less difficult to hit.

This also assumes the target is holding the hostage tightly and close to them. If they are standing back, like half an arm's length to an arm's length, then it should be easier to hit them an miss the hostage, especially from a side shot. The penalty could be reduced to -2 for partial cover or even eliminated if taking a side on shot.

A called shot should reduce the odds of hitting the hostage, particularly if using a weapon made for accuracy like a sniper or sporting rifle.

[DireRadiant]

Glitch = Hit Hostage

[Eryk the Red]

If a glitch occurs, then of course the hostage gets hit. But that's really not enough. Glitches are pretty infrequent. There has to be other penalties.

[ShadowDragon]

[Tomothy]

[TheOOB]

I'd use their Body+Armor as a barrier rating for normal shots. For called shots to not hit the hostage I'd apply a dice pool penalty based on the size (probally around a -4) and make you hit the hostage on a glitch.

[Kev]

How 'bout this?

-4 for good cover.

Glitch means you hit the hostage. Critical glitch means you hit the hostage and you add all of your glitch dice as net hits for damage to the hostage (you didn't just shoot the hostage, you shot them in the MOUTH).

Glitch is rolled on 1's AND 2's.

I think that makes it easiest. What say you?

[kzt]

[ShadowDragon]

Kev, glitches don't happen often enough.

[Eryk the Red]