 Oh the HORRORS of it all! |
  |
 Mar 10 2007, 07:53 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage  Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361  |
Ok, as requested I've made a new topic, but something to consider about the Fourth Age bibliophile20 is that some of those 'stone-age meta-humans' could basically cut off a mountain peak and turn it into a nearly invincible flying battleship.
|
 |
 
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:15 AM
Post
#2
|
|||||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Much appreciated Ravor. To save some time, I'll quote in the questions already asked
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Mar 10 2007, 09:41 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Horrors is a lay name given to an entire ecosystem of beings that only have one thing in common, the originate in the deepest of the deep metaplanes, which only touch our world near the peak of the mana cycle.
The term "Horror" is thought to be a corruption of the term Horri, which is used by Dragons to describe these creatures. According to Dragon legend, the Earth was once ruled by Verjigorm, The Great Hunter, who spawned the Horri so that he could enjoy watching them fight, kill, and feed upon one another. Supposedly, one of these Horri grew tired of its existence, discovered what we would call "beauty", and transformed itself into something resembling a dragon before creating the Namegiver races (Dragons and Metahumans) with dragons being created in its own image, making them both closer to the creator and closer to the Horrors. The validity of this creation story is questionable. Although the dragons are the oldest beings on the planet and would be the most likely to know these things, the story is both self-serving (reinforcing their own sense of racial superiority) and it contradicts the fossil record. Like any Young-Earth Creation story, it must be met with skepticism. Either way, what is known is that the Horrors do exist, they are out there, and they aren't waiting patiently for their turn to feed on us. They've already attempted to build bridges between their metaplane and ours more than once and they were only stopped by the efforts of the most powerful Great Dragons and Immortal Elves, with the assistance of some PCs on one occasion and Nadja Daviar's brown nipples on another. When the Mana Level reaches the point where creatures can cross between our plane and the Horrors' metaplanes en mass, the Scourge begins. Trillions of them cross over into our world so that they may feed upon us. Without special protections, no place is safe because metaplanar shortcuts allow Horrors to bypass physical and mystical barriers. Only a special ritual ward called the Rites of Passage and Protection can block them. During the last scourge it was used to create sealed cities called kaers, where people lived without any contact with the outside for centuries, waiting for the mana level to drop. No two Horrors are alike, although the UnNamed can be grouped into general categories based on their habits and abilities. Named Horrors, on the other hand, and totally unique and are nearly always work alone. Cooperation between Named Horrors is extremely rare. Hard data is out these, sort of. Stats don't convert very well between the systems. The most powerful of Named Horrors is more powerful than any single GD or any single God for that matter. However, even Verjigorm's stats leave him vulnerable to an attack by a team of Great Dragons. Ristul, on the other hand, is invulnerable to attack due to its nature as corrupting action rather than an actual being. The weaker Horrors could give the average shadowrunner a challenge. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=0&hl=bloatform That link will take you to some ED->SR3 stat conversions for some lesser Horrors and Horror constructs. One thing to remember is that the Horrors aren't all ravenous monsters. Among them are Bonecrown the Usurper, which feeds on loyalty. He gains the fealty of metahumans by disguising himself as a metahuman and winning political offices. Nemesis is pretty much a powerful businessman with his hands in many economic activities of questionable ethics, such as metahuman slavery. On the other end of the spectrum are Dread Iotas, who are basically little microscopic magicians who hide in your water and then threaten to powerbolt you from the inside if you don't help them infect other people. Nasty creatures, they are. My favorite Horror is Chantrel's Horror, a creature which feeds on loneliness and grants its victims complete physical immortality so that they cannot end their suffering no matter how hard they try. Horrors do tend to have certain powers in common, including the ability to "mark" victims. Marked victims are vulnerable to a horror's powers across long distances even if the Horror does not have line-of-sight and they suffer rather large penalties to resist those powers. Also, some Horrors can survive the destruction of their physical bodies without suffering any real damage. Nebis intentionally gets his physical body destroyed by do-gooders and then enjoys manipulating them into doing evil from the Astral plane and then uses parts of them to create his new physical body. To answer the orbital weapons question, it depends on the Horror. Many can survive the destruction of a physical body and many don't even have a physical body to destroy. Those have to be fought on the Astral Plane. Others would infiltrate the government by hook or crook and gain control of the weapon. Some such as Ubyr, a godzilla-scale leach that sucks the lifeforce from populations of whole cities, would be extremely vulnerable to such an attack. The microscopic Dread Iotas would be extremely difficult to target. The greatest weakness and the greatest strength of the Horrors are their diversity. They are more likely to compete for victims than they are to band together, but there is no single tactic that can get them all. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 05:20 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
*blinks* I see.
Okay... I'm not too proud to take back what I said--from what I had been hearing, they were just as I had said in the Dragon Technomancer post--but this info puts a whole new spin on things... Hmmm... Okay, so these things are powerful, magical and distinctly malicious. So they have to be fought with magic, which begs two questions: A) How well did the dragons--especially the Greats--fight these things? Their skill makes a good benchmark between the two Ages. B) How has metahuman magic itself improved, compared to the 4th Age? Afterall there's alot more direct research--actual research--being made (and there's also alot more of us, with a correspondingly higher number of magicians who can fight) |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 06:19 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 14-January 07 From: Zurich Orbital Member No.: 10,642 |
As to B: I believe Harlequin said that metahumanity still has around 2000-3000 more years before they could even hope to stand up to the Horrors.
As to A: I'm not sure. It would vary depending on the Horror and the Dragon. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 07:11 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
They didn't. They hid. The magics they use to ward their lairs against Horrors were the basis for the Rites of Passage and Protection. Those that didn't hide usually lost miserably or died bravely. One particular dragon who encountered a Horror early in the 4th World mana cycle wrote the original books of Harrow at the Horror's request. He did so by cutting off his own skin and using it as parchment, using his own blood as ink, and probably using his own sinew to bind the damned things. Vestrivan, a particularly powerful GD and the brother of the Loremaster of the time, decided that the best way to fight the Horrors is to learn as much about them as possible. The only problem with his theory is that simply learning about the Horrors invites their attention. He was corrupted and transformed into something that was not quite a dragon and not quite a horror. Half the time, when he maintained self-control, he was a pretty nice fellow dedicated to the destruction of the Horrors. The other half, when the Horror took over, he was not someone you'd want to meet in a brightly lit park, let alone a dark ally. Those more knowledgeable than me could make corrections, but I do believe that it was implied that he died fighting a Horror Cloud (a giant living storm with a ghost airship crewed by corrupt undead at the center). The only real concerted made by Dragons to fight th Horrors were done through proxies, such as spirits and elementals. One particular miserable failure involved a group of powerful dragons (probably GDs) using ritual conjuring to summon an absurdly powerful Metal Elemental from the Elemental Plane of Metal. This absurdly powerful metal elemental valiantly fought against the Horrors until it was marked, corrupted, and become the Horror known as Artificer. Fighting Horrors with magic is not the best idea, even though it may be necessary at times. Every time a magician casts a spell, without exception, there is a risk that he will be marked by an unseen Horror. There are ways to minimize this risk. Only extremely subtle astral horrors such as Taint can corrupt the flow of mana through a Spell Matrix or a Grimore, so casting spells using a matrix or a Grimore to filter the mana is generally safe. It also doesn't cause drain, which is a plus. However, these take time and preparation and are not always available. Spellcasting in Shadowrun is what they call Raw Casting in Earthdawn. The magician channels mana directly through himself and suffers drain for it. He also opens himself up to the Horrors. In Earthdawn, whenever a magician used Raw Magic he had to make a dice roll to determine if he was Marked by a random horror or not. The more powerful the spell, the more difficult the roll. A character who is Marked by a horror is not necessarily doomed, the horror may be defeated or the mark may be dispelled by some very powerful magics, but a marked individual is always a danger to himself and those around him. To answer B The biggest advantage that Shadowrun magic has over ED magic is versatility. In Shadowrun, any character with the Sorcery skill can cast any spell. In Earthdawn, there were 4 different spellcasting disciplines each with their own completely unique spell lists. Cross-discipline casting was possible, but it required the magician to learn a unique talent from the other discipline and had certain limitations. Also, there was no Conjuring skill in Earthdawn. Instead spirits were summoned using spells or Talents (ED's version of Adept Powers and Metamagics). Spirits were also far more unique and diverse. And lastly, certain ED spells required that "threads" be "woven" to them prior to casting. This could result in a magician spending several actions weaving threads, while all SR spells can be cast in a single complex action. The tradeoff, aside from vulnerability to Horror Marks and drain, is that SR magic is far less powerful than ED magic was. Aside from fleets of levitating stone airships, there were many things that ED magic could do that SR magic and technology cannot match. In Earthdawn, it was difficult but possible to resurrect the dead; instantaneous transmission of matter from one point in space to another was not uncommon; a person could shift his physical body to the astral plane; and the most powerful magicians could shrink down entire cities, along with their citizens, and put them in bottles on their bookshelves. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Mar 10 2007, 07:25 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Ah well,
as the mana level goes up, I am sure that SR mages will become more powerful |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 07:25 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Yes, he was written to have at least appeared to have died in the horor cloud. But you know what they say about finding a body. :D Vestrivan allowed the horror to mark him so that he could learn more about them . The horror was called the Despoiler of Lands . Interesting because there's a reference to "The Despoiler" in Shadows of Asia, something that was sighted and spoke into a fishermans mind that was part dragon, part something else. edit:
No one knows just who Feng or Spring Blossom is. But Miss Tick is Sheila Blatavska, the head of the Atlantean Foundation, whom some also think may be Alachia, one of the immortal elves. This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Mar 10 2007, 07:41 PM |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Mar 10 2007, 07:50 PM
Post
#9
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Well, there's one Horror named Verjigorm, Hunter of Dragons... ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:07 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
a dragon could take many horrors in a straight out fight, but there' sa huge range of the horrors, their strength, abilities, and their cunning. The least being something like a dread iota. They get into the drinking water and then gain control of their host. The greatest, Verjigorm, actually captures and corrupts dragons. In betweens can take control of minds. One nasty trick is marking people and dragons that use magic without an astral filter, much like the filtering metamagic, but a bit more advanced.
One of the greats in the ED books said that many dragons fell to this sort of corruption because they practiced standard ragon magic, jsut like the 6th world dragons do, instead of learning disciplines and spell matirc (the more advenced fitlering) to protect them selves. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:11 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Ah.
Okaaaay... So, I'm assuming that these guys only show up at the peak of the cycle? Like, say, the one or two hundred year span that represents the crest of the mana cycle? (i.e. it'll be 3070--at least--before these bad boys show up) |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:16 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
that's supposed to be correct. AT the height of the mana cycle, they should be able to come in for about 500 years.
Problem was the Great Ghost dance. Basically because so blood magic was used, it created an astral spike, which basically let them built a bridge. Think of it this way.. if the mana cycle is our world, and their plane is another, think of the two realities as cliffs. Ther's a big canyon in the middle. As the cycle gets higher, then cliggs come together. The Ghost Dance made a spike, a long stone bridge. So they build one on their side to meet it. That's the metaphor it uses in the books (Dragon Heart Triloogy and Harlequin's Back adventure). spoiler from novels [ Spoiler ]
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:38 PM
Post
#13
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
Earthdawn spellcasters were basically Physical Mages with an aspect to their casting. Figure that each Circle roughly translates as an Initiate Grade and that gives you a fair idea of how powerful they were. Some ED mages could summon spirits (all but Illusionist, and Wizard I think, plus Weaponsmiths could summon) but they didn't get the ability until higher circles (usually around 5th). May have changed in RB's ED Classic but I haven't read through that yet. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Mar 10 2007, 08:42 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
They only show up en mass at the peak of the mana cycle. It takes a great deal of effort to cross over earlier but it can be done. By canon, there were at least two Named Horrors in the Sixth World around 2057 (Confirmed by Thais in Worlds Without End). One of them we know to be Ysrthgranthe, an absurdly powerful and malevolent magician who is nevertheless of no danger to anyone except the Immortal Elf Aina, who was once the Horror's lover and is the eternal object of his obsession.
Aina either banished or destroyed Ysrthgranthe in an aerial blood-magic battle over crater lake but she accidentally activated a Locus there in the process. Mana from this Locus may have allowed other horrors to come through. The second Horror, the one mentioned by Thais, has never been revealed. The Enemy/Bridge metaplot was pretty much brought to a close with the Dragonheart Trillogy and the mystical powers of There is also the aforementioned Thais, who is an example of what happens when a Horror and a metahuman of the opposite sex fail to practice a reliable form of contraception. Back in ED, male spirits, including horrors, could impregnate metahuman females. I'm not sure if it works the other way around, but it does give some validity to the dikoted ally spirit jokes. Thais is Aina and Ysrthgranthe's kid. Depending on your point of view, he is either a metahuman with a slew of Horror Powers or a Horror with the low mana requirements of a metahuman. He's always been around and is the one who originally taught the Great Ghost Dance. There are rumors of such things strewn around various SR3 and SR4 sourcebooks, but nothing concrete. Fanpro doesn't want to bring the Horrors back but they don't want to do away with them completely, either. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 10 2007, 09:23 PM
Post
#15
|
|||
|
Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Can you point me in the right direction for more information on this, please? I'm interested in the early stuff, Ghost Dance etc. and especially any behind the scenes stuff like this. -K. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Mar 10 2007, 09:29 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Worlds Without End. If you want to be sick and tired of IEs, it isn't a bad book to read. There is very little actual information about the GGD, though, and nothing direct. It is all told from Aina's POV and has some flashbacks to the American Western Expansion, when Thais first allied himself with a tribe of Native Americans, attempting to tech them real magic to fight the white settlers. She is aware of the son's actions but not directly involved in them.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 01:10 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
There's also the book Scars which is also w/ Aina, but taking place in the Earthdawn era. Very neat book. Worlds without End is acutally the thrid part of the trilogy that Scars starts, but originally it was the only book published. The middle book, Little Treasures, I'm still trying to get my hands on. Anyone else read that one?
Other books with horrors in them off the top of my head: the Dragon Heart Trilogy the adventure Bottled Demon (sorta) Harleuin'd Back (adventure) Thais shows up in Shadows of Asia Then of cuorse there's the entire Earthdawn line, which ties in to SR a lot. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 01:34 AM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Oh... shit.
Hmmm... Still, the Greats aren't stupid--far from it--so I have to assume that they're making preperations. Lofwyr in particular strikes me as potentially being a great asset--while I don't doubt that he maneuvered his way to the top of SK strictly for for the money and for the additions to his hoard, in a way, SK is his hoard now, and I doubt that he'll appreciate any attempts by Horrors to damage what he's built. That being said... I can see why these guys are bad news. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 01:38 AM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I'm just gonna laugh and you're going to have to trust me that I deserve it.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 06:23 AM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
True, I imagine that both the GDs and the IEs are making plans for the upcoming scourge, but I'm not so sure that those plans aren't focused on trying to build the better kaer.
Still, a website that you might find interesting is: http://earthdawn.lrgames.com/howitcametopass.html |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 06:31 AM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Actually, neither are really doing much. They mostly mocked Dunkelzhan for worrying about something that shouldn't happen for a couple thousand years.
[ Spoiler ] As for the GDs, they arent' exactly known for working well with each other, or necessarily respecting Dunk's views that they can't just hide in their lairs and take a nap for a few hundred years like they did last time. Why would the Scourge be a bad thing for Lowfyr? Think of all the reconstruction contracts and space platform contracts Saeder-Krupp Heavy Industries would get. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 07:57 AM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Mana doesn't do well in spacel
SR4 has the tech to build space stations Horrors going to arrive at x date Build lots and lots of space stations, move them far enough from earth that no mana based creature can survive to get to them. Mana based creatures that travel on them, can do ok, as there will be a small amount of mana genereated by the inhabitants, plants, etc... Sound like a plan? |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 08:12 AM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Ya' know that bequest in Dunk's will for people working on deep space travel....
Ya' know how Damien Knight, a pal of Dunk's has a bunch of space stations via Ares.... |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 08:56 AM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Which is why sace being a mana void is one of the seemingly unimportant changes that I have great issues with. It simply makes space less scary. Whatever happened to that magician who ripped out his eyeballs because he saw things that no human is meant to see when he projected to the edge of the manasphere?
In any event, space stations still won't be effective unless you can prevent incursions from the metaplanes. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 11 2007, 09:01 AM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Well, since you can't really astrally project in a mana warp, specially if you are far from a nice solid mana producing planet, I am not sure that you have to worry about metaplane attacks.
I can see the stations wanting to be small, to have as small as possible mana output, but with lots of travel between them. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th April 2024 - 04:03 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.