 Oh the HORRORS of it all! |
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 Mar 11 2007, 12:41 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687  |
Also in Loose Alliances (pg 84).
It's entirely possible that horrors can survive/thrive in a mana void. Look at the fovae (sp?) that were being produced in Aztlan for reference. |
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Mar 11 2007, 03:05 PM
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#27
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Also something to remember is that unless you are going to limit yourself to the smallest of space stations your station will start producing its own weak Mana Sphere and although spirits/magical critters don't like it they can live in the resulting Mana Ebb. (And I don't think there are any rules forbiddening crossing from the Metaplanes into a Mana Ebb so the Scourge would still be able to get to you.)
Also something else to consider is that even in the Mana Void of space, a powerful enough Mage can still cast spells, it just isn't a good idea, so it stands to reason that a powerful enough Physical Horror would be fine as well, albeit weakened. So I'm not so sure that space is the magic bullet that people think it is given that I'm not sure you can have the stations be sustainable without pushing their Mana-sphere into an Ebb instead of an outright Void, plus I feel sorry for whoever has to make the decision on what weapons to issue within the station itself to combat whatever Horrors are able to get to you, given what a bitch explosive decompression from a stray round can be. |
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Mar 11 2007, 03:28 PM
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#28
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I'm not sure about this. Doesn't it make a bit of a nonsense that the horrors can't cross into our world because the mana levels are too low. But now they can manage in the complete mana void that is space? I think Hyzmarca had it aright. The change from mana warp to mana void has given humanity some (please forgive me) high ground from which to fight the horrors. And that changes them quite a bit. It's not that the horrors are no longer horrible, mind you. You could do something like the Final Fantasy movie where the Earth is plagued by spirit-monsters whilst mankind 's remnants float around in space making the occasional desperate run on Earth for supplies. Three thousand years is a good long while, but we're talking about moving the whole species off the planet for 500 years or so. I'd expect the coming of the horrors to still be pretty catastrophic therefore, even with warning. But probably due to reading too much Lovecraft, I too miss the "enclosing nightmare of space" angle. |
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Mar 11 2007, 04:19 PM
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#29
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I'm not so sure, the way that I understand it is that they can function perfectly fine at the current Shadowrun Mana Levels, its just that they have a really hard time crossing into our Plane in the first place.
Also I'm considering the fact that metahuman Mages can even manage to cast spells while in a Void once they've learned enough secrets of the multi-verse. In fact Great Dragons only have to Initate ONCE before they can travel into the deepest regions of Space and still use Magic. Since the Horrors are supposed to at least be on par with Great Dragons, and that the GDs appearently get more powerful as the mana level raises I have to disagree that Space is safe. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Horrors aren't weaker in a Mana Void then in Earth's rich Mana Sphere, but since I believe that any sustainable colony would be considered an Ebb anyways its a moot point as the Horrors wouldn't even have to contend with an actual Void to get to you in the first place. |
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Mar 11 2007, 04:53 PM
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#30
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
There's also the fact that there was no space travel in ED so we don't know what was up there. There could very well be Horrors that are perfectly at home in space. (There were ones who lived in magma without any effect)
However, since Dunk was so big on space exploration/development I'd say that it was probably intended that space be "safer." |
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Mar 11 2007, 04:56 PM
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#31
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Partly correct. As an example, some of the even mroe powerful ones can come through with something like a spike and be sustained by current levels, like Ysgrathe did. Once they make it through, they need less mana. But really powerful ones still need a large amount. Artificer for example wasn't seen after the actual Scourge because the mana level was too low. But it's traps were still everywhere, and it fed on thse. |
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Mar 11 2007, 05:04 PM
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#32
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
It's an exaggeration to say that a space station, by its own nature, will go from being rated as a Mana Void to a Mana Ebb. In fact, in most cases, it won't. Space is on the deep mana void end of the scale; it takes considerable effort to get it even to a minor void or ebb status. The Eden laboratory on the Ares Daedalus station is one very rare example of this effort, and it has not yet been said where exactly Eden sits on the scale. But perhaps the real worry to using space as a barrier to the Horrors is not the Horrors themselves, but the followers and institutions that Named Horrors are very capable of subverting and corrupting. Many fourth world kaers fell not because a Horror itself got inside, but because it worked away at the kaer's destruction through agents. |
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Mar 11 2007, 05:25 PM
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#33
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Well, there obviously was some space travel in Earthdawn. Why else would there be troll skeletons on Mars? -Frank |
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Mar 11 2007, 05:30 PM
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#34
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Would you knock it off with the bloody troll skeleton already?
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Mar 11 2007, 05:44 PM
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#35
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It's a horned biped which is 2.85 meters tall +/- 5 cm. Got any other bright ideas? -Frank |
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Mar 11 2007, 05:49 PM
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#36
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,273 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
I don't know the ED world at all, but it seems to me that SR-current technology differs from that environment in more ways than just space travel. Say, for example, what about nanotech innoculation against those 'Iota' thingies?
Even the most mundane drudge can be a very dangerous thing with the right tools. |
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Mar 11 2007, 05:58 PM
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#37
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
There are no indication that it is either horned or a biped. |
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Mar 11 2007, 06:10 PM
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#38
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
You do realize that it doesn't even matter?
The likelihood that the lifeform it belonged to developed on mars the same way as on earth and is the only remnant of an ecosystem is... nil. Pretty much the only possibility is a transfer. And as natural events resulting in such transfers result in the annihilation of a few sqare miles, the likelihood of it being there coincidently is also pretty much... nil. |
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Mar 11 2007, 06:51 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
Maybe when the manasphere is at it's height it goes so far out that it crosses the mars orbit at it's closest. Then a great dragon had to deal with a really annoying ork....
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Mar 11 2007, 06:59 PM
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#40
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
[Chomp]
Problem ork dealt with... |
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Mar 11 2007, 07:20 PM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 7,106 |
I'm imagining a setting a few thousand years in Shadowrun's future; the horrors came back, but much of humanity fled to mars, terraforming it to something hospitable. the horrors kept coming, but they were more managable, having been weakened by the long trip through space.
Now, the horrors have stopped coming, and mankind is sending their first expeditions back to their former homeland... |
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Mar 11 2007, 08:41 PM
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#42
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
The only problem with that is that there is evidence in ED that Earth isn't the only plane that gets invaded by the Horrors. Mars is, in all likelihood also invaded by Horrors during the Scourge. (Or at least was when it was still a living planet). As for nanites being used to innoculate against the Dread Iotas, I don't think that'd be the case. Remember, there could be Horrors in control of the supply of said nanites and could feast off the frustration that their hoarding could produce. Not to mention it wouldn't be in a corporation's best interest to give them away either. The end result would be that only the wealthiest members of society could afford the nanites and have access to "clean" water. "Space Travel" in FASA's ED wasn't too detailed. They went so far as to mention that Parlainthian magicians made stone vessels that could be used by Name givers to travel through Astral Space without projecting or using a portal. RB's ED Classic further expands on this by speculating that some of the residents of Parlainth used these vessels as "escape pods" to jettison themselves from the dead city out into astral space. Charcoalgrin (a GD) is currently seeking these out to find her lost "love," a Parlainthian magician. These vessels could, perhaps have been used to travel to other planets (such as Mars). I'd imagine that they "sail/row" (they were modelled on Airships/Sailing ships using the law of similarity) at astral speeds. Deep Space would probably be akin to the Doldrums experienced between the Tropics and the Equator in RL. Would take a long time to get there but could possibly make it. |
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Mar 11 2007, 08:44 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
I would see it more as asteroid bases, space stations, rather than a terraformed Mars. A terraformed Mars would have it's own mana sphere, and possibly vulnerable to the planes.
Hundred of asteroid bases, space stations (hmm, sounds a lot like Kaers, but with communication and travel - possibly) where metahumankind survived while the Scourge raged. A lot of them destroyed by horrors and horror marked people, but more than enough left to revisit Earth once the mana levels drop. |
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Mar 11 2007, 09:17 PM
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#44
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Travelling at "astral speeds", e.g. 50,000km/h (these must be seriously powerful magicians, after all), from Earth to Mars would take at least 46.7 days, averaging 64.6 days when Mars is in opposition. In SR3, that'd have made a 5-digit Willpower and Astral Pool a necessity just to survive the 28,800 daily 14D "attacks". Dunno if mana warps were more pleasant under the ED rules they'd have traveled with. :) |
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Mar 12 2007, 05:06 AM
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#45
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The picture shows a horned skull. The description of the bones describes a femur one meter in length. Since the femur of a quadruped looks markedly and obviously different from that of a biped and the standard usage of the terminology is the human bone equivalent, we can do our basic femur to height equations and we get a human who stands aproximately 285 cm tall.
Yes and no. The fact that it is a Troll skeleton and not the skeleton of any other human subspecies puts it in unambiguously magical territory. The skeletons of dwarves or elves might legitimately be argued to be messed up normal humans. But a Troll is outside the possible size and body shape possibilities for a normal human. That means that it is definitely a holdover from a previous age of magic, and not a cave man or a midget who was shuttled across by aliens. Remember: in Shadowrun the existence of Earthdawn is a secret. Many people think it happened or may have happened, but hard evidence is hard to come by. The Mars expedition and its results were buried deep. So any character who has seen the troll bones from Mars is privy to secret information that conclusively shows that there was a previous age of magic and that the people in that time period were capable of space travel. -Frank |
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Mar 12 2007, 12:06 PM
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#46
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I don't see a horned skull. The long bone is described as looking like a femur and is in fact 1.5 meters long. I thereby conclude there is not enough evidence to assume the critter is a troll. |
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Mar 12 2007, 02:14 PM
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#47
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
After a few shots of tequila you might see the horned skull. ;-)
Is there a larger, clearer picture out there? I'm having a hard time looking at it on my browser. *adjusts glasses and squints at the pixels* |
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Mar 12 2007, 08:18 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
One of my theory is about space not being a mana void, but an aspected mana domain (or worst, since i can't remember the +7 to +12 name). This aspect being unknown to all, seems like a mana void, but is in fact aspected towards the power of horrors...Mwahahahahah.
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Mar 12 2007, 09:23 PM
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#49
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Mana Warp pg 119 Street Magic |
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Mar 12 2007, 09:35 PM
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#50
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Space was a manawarp in previous editions. However, Street Magic explicitly changes that, stating that it is a manavoid. This supports the "all mana is dependent on life" theory rather than the only "usable mana is dependant on normal non-alien life" paradigm. |
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