 Form fitting body armor |
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 Mar 12 2007, 01:24 AM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,755 Joined: 5-September 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 9,313  |
Was going over grunt stats and gear in bbb and noticed some wearing "Form Fitting body armor". No such armor in gear section, Frank recently mentioned somthing in hardened armor thread about armor jacket being combined with form fitting and forearm guards. So guessing form fitting less then jacket more on lines of chameleon suit.
Any other references out there im missing? |
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Mar 12 2007, 01:27 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,382 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Shadowland Member No.: 8,297 |
Previous editions mostly. I am looking for it in a future source book.
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Mar 12 2007, 01:34 AM
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#3
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Form Fitting Armour, or Munchkin Armour as I (and probably many other GMs) call it, was armour that you could wear under any other type of armour without any sort of penalty. It was cheap, available, an without drawback.
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Mar 12 2007, 01:38 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,755 Joined: 5-September 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 9,313 |
Came along in first edition with street sami book, the first laser and mini gun oh my! Players hated me that day. Some still shake when I make that whiring noise! muwahahaha
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Mar 12 2007, 01:41 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 9-March 07 Member No.: 11,195 |
Yes, it's obviously munchkin armor because it's good.
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Mar 12 2007, 02:06 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
How I'd rule is form fitting body armor have an Avail +4, And costs twice as much as normal.
Take the armor value and -2 when calculating encumbrance and ONLY encumbrance. For example, the hacker with a body of 3 could wear a line duster 6/4 with out penalty. He would however suffer penalties when wearing an Armor Jacket 8/6. (I'm not going to look these up right now read the book yourself) If the Armor Jacket is form fitting then he could wear it fine with a body of 3. Form Fitting body armor rarely fits anyone but the intended wearer. If someone else puts on the armor the suffer the encumbrance penalty and in some cases it may not fit at all. (such as a troll trying to put on armor form fitting for a human) Now as it applies in the grunts section you could wear form fitting full body armor with out penalty with a body of 4. |
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Mar 12 2007, 02:34 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
don't call it "form fitting" call it "Tailored" because that's what you are doing...tailoring it to the person. Form fitting armor is like cat woman's suit...it's "form" "fitting" |
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Mar 12 2007, 02:38 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Ah, form fitting 3.
Shadowrunner longjohns |
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Mar 12 2007, 03:24 AM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Of course, there may not be much point to it any longer, now that they have changed the armor layering rules so that only the highest value applies.
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Mar 12 2007, 03:29 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
There'd be as much a point to it as there ever was. Assuming they follow the same design concept, they would just exempt the form-fitting armor from the layering restrictions, meaning that it's cumulative with other worn armor. It's like dermal plating that you wear!
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Mar 12 2007, 04:50 AM
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#11
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
No, it was munchkin armor because it let you bypass the normal rules to your benefit, without any real balancing drawback. No, it wasn't a MAJORLY unbalancing thing, but it was munchy. -karma |
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Mar 12 2007, 05:33 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 5-February 05 Member No.: 7,053 |
It wasn't that it was a munchkin thing to do, it was that it was a stupid thing *not* to do.
The emergence of those rules basically meant "add 2 to the armour of all shadowrunners." I vote ditch the "layering". Form-fitting armour can be what it should be: slightly-less-effective armour that you can wear under anything short of a bikini and get away with it. |
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Mar 12 2007, 07:20 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Shouldn't that be a vote for the SR4 rules of layering, and a vote against the special layering rule for Form Fitting? ;) |
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Mar 12 2007, 08:08 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 375 Joined: 15-November 06 From: Salem, Dwarven Hell (Tir Tairngier) Member No.: 9,865 |
I'd vote for slightly more complex layering rules to allow for some common sense ruling like GURPS.
So basicly if it makes sense you can layer armor but take a -1 to agility. |
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Mar 12 2007, 08:13 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Better to make it to reaction and agility |
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Mar 12 2007, 08:14 AM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 9-March 07 Member No.: 11,195 |
I'd just have it cost about 2000 and add +1 to the ballistic value of any non-security armor. I never bought that it would provide impact.
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Mar 12 2007, 10:58 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 16-April 02 From: DC Member No.: 2,605 |
Ah, memories of the broken aspects of SR3. Those where the days when you could layer form-fitting, armored clothing, and an armored jacket, throw on some forearm guards and a helmet. If you really wanted to go over the top you could grab a ballistic shield and sustain a armor spell.
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Mar 12 2007, 11:36 AM
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#18
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Um ... where did you see that? It's actually my opinion that the "form-fitting body armor" is now called an Armor Vest, which is "designed to be worn under regular clothing without displaying any bulk." (Boyle et al. 315) However, I expect that we'll be seeing something called "Form-Fitting Body Armor" in Arsenal, although with any luck, the rules for it will not be munchy. |
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Mar 12 2007, 12:45 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,755 Joined: 5-September 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 9,313 |
Dont have book in front of me right now but think it was Tir Ghosts in grunts section. |
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Mar 12 2007, 12:49 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 10-May 06 From: Ohio Member No.: 8,545 |
It would be cool if in Arsenal they define Form Fitting Body Armor to be something similar to:
Liquid Armor |
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Mar 12 2007, 02:38 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
I need some kind of form fitting full body suit to pair with my tracless walk and wall running for a perfectly silent break in.
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Mar 12 2007, 03:22 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
The irony is that modern armor works better when it is form fitting. SR4 armor seems to be "soft" armor (unplated). Unless it is phase-change armor that goes from fabric to "plate" automatically, it will need bracing.
Let's think of a kevlar t-shirt that can't be penetrated by any pistol round. Bob wears his loose fitting, Steve wears his tight. Bob gets shot by a .45. The bullet strikes the kevlar and immediately begins to take up the slack. Being a loose fit, there's about 4 inches of slack, whereupon the .45 and the kevlar are drive 4" into Bob's body, deep enough to puncture a lung or other organ. Steve gets's shot by the same .45. His tight-fitting kevlar has just enough give for Steve to breath and move so call it 1" of slack. Barring a broken bone, Steve is let off with a fleshwound. |
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Mar 12 2007, 03:43 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
As I understand it, armor vest manufacturers use the material itself to provide some of that bracing. Most (maybe all) ballistic vests use more layers than necessary to actually stop the intended bullet, in order to reduce blunt trauma.
The US standards for body armor state that to say your armor protects from round X, it must not penetrate (duh), and must not push in the armor more than roughly 1.5 inches. Shear thickening fluids excite me because they might allow you to get rid of the excess layers. Your kevlar fabric becomes a kevlar plate for the millisecond you need it to be. On the other hand, having the extra layers gives you a safety margin. If you have a vest designed to protect you from .38-9mmP rounds, and you get hit by a .44 Mag, the extra layers may actually stop the round, leaving you with a few broken ribs or a bruised organ instead of a gunshot wound. |
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Mar 12 2007, 06:21 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
In tests with small patches of kevlar with and without STF vs. BB guns, I seem to remember that the STF meant a reduction in layers of about 40% while providing the same resistance to penetration. The weight remained the same, but flexibility improved a lot.
Still, using the best materials available now with STF, you'd be looking at a ballistic panel ~3.5mm thick, weighing ~1.1lbs/ft^2. It'd still be plainly visible from under tight clothing, and wouldn't fool anybody who touched it. Of course it'd also provide protection far in excess of what canon Form Fitting Body Armor did in SR3: full body level protection from nearly all combat handgun and many shotgun threats, brilliant blunt trauma protection, etc. |
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Mar 12 2007, 06:26 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 10-May 06 From: Ohio Member No.: 8,545 |
Here are some photos showing the effectiveness of kevlar with STF:
Photos Here's one where the stuff was shot with a gun: Gun Example If the stuff is that good in 2007, imagine what 65 years of research will have done for it . . . scary. |
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