Landmates in shadowrun? - Dumpshock Forums

Landmates in shadowrun?

red5angel View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 02:25 PM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 15-March 07 Member No.: 11,240	A freind of mine is starting an SR4 campaign here in a few months and I'm trying to find out if anyone has done up stats for a Landmate/powersuit in SR4? Thanks in advance!

Fix-it View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 03:17 PM Post #2
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	Nope, no power armor/suits here. as there hasn't been a rigger supplement for 4 yet, you really can't gin one up within the rules. my advice: steel lynx combat drones. more= merrier.

red5angel View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 03:35 PM Post #3
Target Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 15-March 07 Member No.: 11,240	I'm not necessarily looking for anything official. My gamemaster and I are either going to do our own stats or use someone elses so I thought I'd check to see if anyone else had done anything.

cristomeyers View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 03:43 PM Post #4
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 14-January 07 From: Zurich Orbital Member No.: 10,642	It is possible to build an anthropomorphic drone and have a rigger jump into it, but to my knowledge there are no powersuits.

Guye Noir View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:13 PM Post #5
Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 1-March 06 From: NYC Member No.: 8,325	Power Armor Armor: 20/20 Standard Features: • Because the suit is self powered there are no penalties for wearing it with a low Body. • +4 STR • Rigger adaptation. • Chemical Seal with a 24 hour air supply • Hydraulics built into the arms functions as gyro stabilization • Can be upgraded with any of the listed armor modifications, as well as visual and audio enhancements and sensor functions. Has capacity 8. • Already includes a helmet (should be obvious) • -10 to infiltration Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise because I think the concept of powered armor is awesome. Most of the numbers I just pulled out of my ass. The armor has no market price or availability because it’s simply not available on the open market. It’s made exclusively for world governments and elite paramilitary organizations. Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this with a normal availability check is stupid and it would ruin your game. P.S. It should look something like this. Chainsaw sword and blessed SMG not included.

Kazum View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:33 PM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26-February 07 From: Hildesheim, Germany Member No.: 11,107	Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/...r%20armor03.jpg

lorechaser

Mar 16 2007, 04:37 PM

Post #7

Running Target

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QUOTE (Kazum)

Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/...r%20armor03.jpg

*dies happy*

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:41 PM Post #8
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	Now bear in mind, if you get your powered armor too big then you don't have an awesome soldier, you have a crappy tank. We should be looking at powered armor as a slightly augmented soldier, not as a battlemech. There's another game for that, and it requires a totally different technology level. But taking some of the full suits and making them powered so that they encumber you as though their armor values were halved (for example), while at the same time giving a bit of a bonus to strength, a bit of recoil comp, and some extra dice to fatigue tests, and you've got something realistic and cool. Maybe if the user has a VCR they can get a +2 to athletic tests. :-) But I think putting legs on a citymaster is sort of the wrong direction to be going with this. :-)

Kazum View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:42 PM Post #9
Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26-February 07 From: Hildesheim, Germany Member No.: 11,107	:) I have an off-topic question: What is RAW ? There is everywhere "according to RAW" .... ? noob

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:43 PM Post #10
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	Rules As Written. Generally taken verbatim, literally, and without interpretation, and especially without house-rules.

Kazum View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:54 PM Post #11
Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26-February 07 From: Hildesheim, Germany Member No.: 11,107	thx a lot. :)

deek View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:00 PM Post #12
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814	Yeah, comparing it to the vehicle listing, I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10. Now, you should be able to stack it with worn armor, but I don't think you want a power suit to rival the citymaster, which at 20/20, its actually better... But yeah, giving a 10/10, extra strength (or maybe just a set strength when used), recoil compensation...like moon-hawk was suggesting, could be really cool, again, not openly available, but maybe something a runner team could see... You may even want to use the vehicle damage rules for the suit, so in the above scenario, if modified DV doesn't surpass a the 10 armor, then no damage is done...otherwise, you then get to resiste with the 10 body/10 armor of the suit, plus your own body and armor from within...

Crakkerjakk View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:27 PM Post #13
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 24-January 07 Member No.: 10,756	Important part I would tack on, include power supply, and length of charge. And what happens when the power supply runs out, when you have to drag around all that armor and those servoes around without assistance. Power armor is a nifty concept till it runs outa juice.

Jaymes View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:27 PM Post #14
Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 10-May 06 From: Ohio Member No.: 8,545	I'm trying to understand how power armor would give you a strength bonus instead of just a predetermined strength. Such as, by wearing this armor you strength is simply 10 (or whatever). I would think that the power of the hyrdaulics involved in the armor would be independent of the power of the operator - could you extrapolate on this decision a bit?

Moon-Hawk

Mar 16 2007, 05:35 PM

Post #15

Genuine Artificial Intelligence

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QUOTE (Jaymes @ Mar 16 2007, 12:27 PM)

I'm trying to understand how power armor would give you a strength bonus instead of just a predetermined strength.

It depends. If you're picturing powered armor as something from Exo-Squad, or the loader from Aliens then it would have a predetermined strength and is probably best described as a vehicle.
If you're picturing powered armor like this then its strength isn't totally replacing yours, it's just adding a little bit to whatever you do to make loads feel lighter. It doesn't even necessarily make you stronger, just prevents you from being made totally weak by all the crap you're carrying. Of course, for powered armor it is cool if it makes you a little bit stronger.

So if it moves FOR you, it has a predetermined strength. If it helps YOU move, it should be a bonus.

Guye Noir

Mar 16 2007, 05:42 PM

Post #16

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QUOTE

I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10

See

QUOTE

Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise...

and

QUOTE

Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this ... is stupid and it would ruin your game.

Jaymes View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:43 PM Post #17
Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 10-May 06 From: Ohio Member No.: 8,545	That makes sense to me now. Thanks for the explanation, Moon-Hawk!

deek

Mar 16 2007, 05:45 PM

Post #18

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (Guye Noir)

QUOTE

I'd be wary of allowing the body/armor to go above 10/10

See

QUOTE

Disclaimer: This armor is extremely broken and not balanced against anything. I simply made it as an intellectual exercise...

and

QUOTE

Letting ‘runners in your group find and buy armor like this ... is stupid and it would ruin your game.

Yeah, I read that, I was just thinking that we were using your initial build as a concept and then perhaps tweaking it through this thread to come to a general consensus...I think your initial suggestion is solid, we just need to tweak a few stats...

Guye Noir View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:46 PM Post #19
Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 1-March 06 From: NYC Member No.: 8,325	Jaymes, you're probably right, the suit would have it's own strength score that would override that of the user. I just gave it a bonus because that's how it worked in Fallout where the idea of Power Armor was introduced to my tiny, easily impressed little mind.

Guye Noir

Mar 16 2007, 05:47 PM

Post #20

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QUOTE (Kazum)

Or it could look like this http://www.fallout3.phx.pl/obrazki/render/...r%20armor03.jpg

The original looked so much cooler, IMO. I just couldn't find a decent pic of it.

Moon-Hawk

Mar 16 2007, 05:49 PM

Post #21

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QUOTE (Jaymes)

That makes sense to me now. Thanks for the explanation!

No problem. One of the biggest hurdles in any powered armor discussion seems to be agreeing on what it is.
It can be anything from a frame that gives a teeny bit of actual armor and aids your endurance, all the way up to battlemechs, depending on who you're talking to.

But the way I see it, there are two ways to come at it:
1) It's armor, so it uses armor rules. Plus it may give you a couple neat bonuses like RC, some strength, endurance, etc.
2) It's a vehicle, so it uses vehicle rules. We're just talking about a highly maneuverable legged vehicle whose cockpit is inside of it and roughly manshaped, which may or may not extend into the limbs a bit.

Trying to hybridize the two usually ends in something ridiculously overpowered which no one ever agrees on. #2 usually ends up as a crappy tank, that is slightly more versatile in an urban setting, but not much 'cause it's already too big to move well in a building. I think #1 is the most useful and the least game-shatteringly overpowered option.

Spike View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 06:07 PM Post #22
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765	I think something adapted from the Milspec Hard Armor from Feilds of Fire (cannon companion???) would be the best starting point for how tough it would be. The only reason for rigger adaption would be using built in goodies, as fundamentally we are talking armor, not a vehicle. Moon: I'd pimp-slap anyone that tried to tell me a battlemech was 'power armor'. Just sayin'... If you wear it, it's armor, if you pilot it, it's a walking tank. Simple. Now: I am certainly interested in following up on this. Keeping in line with the Space Marine armor and the BoS armor, we can avoid (thankfully) mecha interpretations, and keep it more 'shadowrunny'... but then we ignore the landmates which blur the 'wear/pilot' distinction...

Jaid

Mar 16 2007, 06:45 PM

Post #23

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

#2 usually ends up as a crappy tank, that is slightly more versatile in an urban setting, but not much 'cause it's already too big to move well in a building. I think #1 is the most useful and the least game-shatteringly overpowered option.

well, you could always use something like the robotech zentraedi battle pods... where the pilot is crammed into a tiny little area. which would make for a vehicle not that much larger than a human (and quite possibly within the same size range as a human wearing powered armor).

that being said, if we're talking about powered armor, i usually assume somewhere between 6' and 8' or thereabouts (maybe 9 feet, but once you get too big it's hard to imagine humans operating it by movement) and it is usually worn like a suit rather than piloted like a vehicle.

i could certainly see some *huge* advantages in SR terms to having piloted vehicles, as in your second type, however.

1) simsense as a method of piloting is a huge advantage in this case. particularly for people who rig, the control method being more awkward than normal movement is not a concern. furthermore, from a mechanical perspective, if you have people rigging in hotsim, you're looking at +4 dice to all tests they make... before other potential gear bonuses.

2) response 5 is relatively cheap and easily available, as is hotsim, whereas getting all your troops to reaction 5, agility 5 with 3 IPs (and effective 5 to intuition for initiative purposes) is much more expensive. (response 6 just makes it even better) (if you assume the 'basic' soldier has agi 3 rea 3, you're looking at wired 2 (32k) plus probably muscle replacement 2 (10k) since those are the cheaper methods of raising attributes... and at this point, you've got a soldier with essence 1. and their body attribute is still only 3, so you need some bone lacing to keep up with the vehicle (probably aluminum, so now *something* has to be alpha, but it depends on how tough this anthroform vehicle is) and we also need some hardened armor for them (take no damage from stun). this ignores the fact that regular troops will still need to be able to match the endurance of the vehicles as well. also, add in hardened armor to their needs

3) skills. there are massive savings to be had in training, not to mention drastically increased versatility once trained. a rigger needs only one weapon skill to use all weapons (and gunnery has some specialisations that make "Automatics(SMG)" and "Pistols(semiautomatic)" look narrow) and instead of the athletics group, they need one vehicle skill (pilot anthroform). not to mention any skill with vehicle as a specialisation (did someone say infiltration?) if SR4 uses complimentary skills in the future, this could get even nicer.

if you consider it, and consider the vehicle costs, a small anthroform vehicle would look very appealing to anyone considering large numbers of soldiers.

for example, a "street samurai" rigger built assuming a small anthroform vehicle is available might look something like this:

physical stats: not a huge concern. maybe a good body would be nice. mental stats also not particularly needed, and mages also have no LOS on them to cast spells, can only target the vehicle.

skills:

Gunnery 5(ballistic +2)
Pilot Anthroform 5(biped + 2)
Dodge 4 (ranged +2)
Infiltration (vehicle +2)
Perception 4 (visual +2)

Gear:
Response 5
Control Rig
Vehicle
Guns
whatever else they feel like.

and that's it. in truth, even allowing remotely piloted anthroform drones allows this, so it's basically just gonna cause craziness in general, and frustration for the sammy...

Fix-it View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 06:49 PM Post #24
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	getting around in power armor wouldn't be too bad in SR, because remember most ceilings have been adapted for trolls, so you've got some surplus headroom (important) and door width (not so important)

PBTHHHHT View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 06:57 PM Post #25
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327	I keep thinking that my office was made with the Srun trolls in mind. All the office doors are 8'7" (yes, I measured) in height. I keep expecting an NBA center like Yao Ming to be roaming the halls because of the doorways. Does the gov't know something that we don't? Was the Srun designers right about the Mayan calender?! :eek:

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