Throwing Grenades - Dumpshock Forums

Throwing Grenades, ...throwing them back?

Kazum View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 10:04 AM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26-February 07 From: Hildesheim, Germany Member No.: 11,107	Hi, i played a lot of SR3 - as i mentioned before- and as a GM I hated Grenades.... My Group got used to "Open door, throw Grenade, close door"-Tactics. With a Troll making sure that the door stays closed there is no chance for the Enemies inside... But at least i think you could throw a grenade back in SR3 due to the fact that it exploded in the next initiative pass... But how is it in SR4. I haven't found a rule for this. And i hate calculating the damage in rooms... reflected from walls and so on.... just a little bit too much calculating.

Mistwalker View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 12:21 PM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304	Thrown grenades go off on the next initiative pass

Fix-it View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 04:15 PM Post #3
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	typically with most grenades in small rooms you can just say "You're fucked". and move on.

pestulens View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 05:43 PM Post #4
Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 17-February 07 Member No.: 11,022	Remember, most interior rooms probably have an AR2 sr3, meaning most grenades will blast through them if there close Enough for the reflexon to matter. as fore throwing a grenade back, there are no exposit rolls but a simple action to pick it up and another to throw it seams reasonable.

ShadowDragon View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 05:44 PM Post #5
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754	Make bigger rooms and spread out your bad guys. That'll solve your problem just fine. You could also send them on missions that require them to steal something those grenades might destroy. But throwing a grenade back seems a bit nerve racking to me. I would think a persons first reaction to seeing a grenade would be to run the hell away. The characters in the game don't have the sense of timing that players do. I require a composure test (cha + wil) to throw a grenade back.

kzt

Mar 18 2007, 06:41 PM

Post #6

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Kazum)

i played a lot of SR3 - as i mentioned before- and as a GM I hated Grenades....

Lots of options.

If your players do this everywhere, you have an issue. But there is a cure: The police will show up when they get 300 reports of explosion and gunfire going off in a suburban house. So when the players then need to spend 20 minutes cutting their way into the 2000kg safe bolted to the concrete slab that has all the goodies, interesting things will be quietly going on outside. . . .

And if they are less nuts, there are other issues.

For one thing, drywall and interior doors won't stop fragmentation from the grenade. It won't even slow it down significantly. So they are not cover, they are just concealment. (Nor will they have any significant effect on bullets). So the trolls holding the door shut is going to take significant damage.

Assuming you are dealing with a a building full of armed guys, once you do the first noisy thing they know someone is there and can react. One possibility is to make all the interior doors hardened metal doors with metal frames, and opening into the corridor, and locked. So troll steps up and kicks door. Door, being steel, fails to open. Troll yanks on door. Door being steel and bolted into the frame, fails to open, though handle come off into his hand. And while a metal security door is hard to kick down, it has remarkably little resistance to rifle bullets.

And given that typical interior (and most non-masonry exterior) walls and doors are not cover, meaning the people inside the room, hiding behind cover, can pretty much hose down the walls on either side of the door, which is where the rest of the players are, and eventually good things will start to happen for them.

The players, trapped in the hallway, can't effectively shoot back, because the bad guys are behind cover and the room is much larger then the corridor.

And if their opponents are really paranoid types, it might provide them incentive to set off the directional mines they have lovingly hidden behind the corridor drywall. Another clever trick is putting a few grenades on multi-second fuzes above the door, such that when the door is kicked in the pins are removed. The sound of the door being kicked in should cover any subtle noise the grenades make when they arm. (Naturally they occupants had gone out another exit.) When the PCs rush in after their grenade goes off things get a lot louder then they planned.

Or the opponents drop a bar over the inward swinging interior door and wait for mr Troll. Who's attempt to kick in the normal interior door just embeds his leg in the door, but doesn't open the door. This provides a useful aiming point to the assorted people inside who are waiting with automatic weapons aimed at said door, door that doesn't do anything to bullets.

And we haven't even talked about stairways yet.

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 07:12 PM Post #7
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	..these are all wonderful options. I especially like the old "Water bucket over the door trick" (the grenades on the door). More likely the owners of the installation would be using gas or flashbangs instead of frag or HE, but these can still tip things in the favour of the security team. Another possibility: In a high tech installation there would also be security doors sectioning off the hallways. Highly "sensitive" installations would have secure an "airlock" styled entries in to critical areas where he runners have to close the outer door to open the next. These usually do not have enough room to back up and make a good kick. The second door would usually be hardened as well and have some form of exotic locking mechanism (biometric for example). This of course is an excellent trap. Local area sensors (hardwired of course) noting an unauthorised or forced entry, lock off the outer door and set off gas emitters or a flashbang charge inside. Evil, yes but very reasonable for an ultra paranoid corp.

Demerzel View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 07:19 PM Post #8
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856	Three words: Automated Hideaway Doors Push the button to open. Throw the grenade in. Push the button to close. Push the button to close. Push the button to close. Push the button to close. Push... Push... Push... Push... Push... Push... Aaah! Boom! I hate elevators.

Leehouse

Mar 18 2007, 08:01 PM

Post #9

Target

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QUOTE (kzt)

QUOTE (Kazum @ Mar 18 2007, 03:04 AM)

i played a lot of SR3 - as i mentioned before- and as a GM I hated Grenades....

Lots of options.

If your players do this everywhere, you have an issue. But there is a cure: The police will show up when they get 300 reports of explosion and gunfire going off in a suburban house. So when the players then need to spend 20 minutes cutting their way into the 2000kg safe bolted to the concrete slab that has all the goodies, interesting things will be quietly going on outside. . . .

This is my general take on it, though replace police with whatever is appropriate. If they're breaking into a corp facility and randomly throwing grenades into rooms they should expect a massive force of security to be on the way shortly, if they do it in a random gang hide out then whatever gang members that are left are probably on the way, as well as a slight(but rising each time they use the tactic) chance that the police are on their way.

Then there are also the chances of traps, and other fun things. But I wouldn't implement them until the group noteriety went up and specifically news hit the street that some runners are using tactics such as this.

Mistwalker View Member Profile	Mar 18 2007, 08:23 PM Post #10
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304	Another nasty way to handle it, with magic and mundane version Magic version, security mage cast's physical barrier along the door, so that when the PCs throw their grenades in, they bounce back into the hallway with them. Mundane version, security guys place a sheet of plexiglass, or balistic glass in front of the door. Same result as magic version.

Thane36425

Mar 18 2007, 09:08 PM

Post #11

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Mistwalker)

Another nasty way to handle it, with magic and mundane version

Magic version, security mage cast's physical barrier along the door, so that when the PCs throw their grenades in, they bounce back into the hallway with them.

Mundane version, security guys place a sheet of plexiglass, or balistic glass in front of the door. Same result as magic version.

The physical barrier would work. A mage coudl also send a spirit to materialize next to one of them and pull the pin on at least one grenade while it is on the belt. The spirit then uses its confusion power on that character so they'd have a tough time getting rid of the grenade. Hound them through the compound doing that and they'd get rid of those grenades in a hurry.

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