DV of Bows Options

[Grinder]

A bow has a DV of (STR+2), while throwing and melee weapons are based on STR/2. Thus, the bow becomes very powerful, especially above a STR of 6 (like sammies and one trick ponies have). The drawback is that a bow can be fired only once per IP, due to needing a complex action. But duing the game, we found a bow to be very strong, mabe a little too much and the question arose: was it intenional to give bows the high DV or is this a need a for an errata?

[cristomeyers]

I can't see why bows would be overpowered. The more pull on the bow, the stronger you have to be to use it and also it's going to launch a more powerful projectile. Hence, STR Min +2

It's melee weapons being based off of Str/2 that I think is a little wierd, as it's based entirely off of your strength (as opposed to the pull of the bow).

[Demerzel]

Didn't Rambo take out a heliopter with a compound bow in one of those movies? I can't say I saw it, but I remember the trailer.

[The Jopp]

[Demerzel]

Ah yes, then the movie poster of Hot Shots had Charlie Sheen with a Ex-Ex Chicken in his bow...

[Moon-Hawk]

[Demerzel]

[Grinder]

My thoughts were not Rambo-related, but more like: all damage codes have been divided by 2 when you compare SR3 and SR4, only the bow still has its old damage value ((STR+2)M at SR3 and STR+2 at SR4). That seems odd to me.

[Eryk the Red]

I use Str. min.+2 DV for bows in my game. It works well. A troll-bow still hits hard (very hard, in fact), but it's not likely to stop a Citymaster. Which seems fair.

[Grinder]

But it leaves a big scar in the Citymaster, when it is hit by an arrow with what? 15P plus net hits?

[X-Kalibur]

[Eryk the Red]

Um, I totally screwed up what I was actually trying to say. I meant that I do Str. Min./2 +2 DV for bows.

It should make more sense when read that way.

[X-Kalibur]

Compare what a sword vs an arrow can do to your average suit of platemail. There is a reason the Longbow changed combat so radically. With the case of compound bows you are getting far more energy out than you are putting in to it. I know its hard to imagine an arrow doing more damage to a person than a giant axe, but it will have a much higher penetration value. Perhaps the bow needs to be changed to have an AP value instead of a huge damage value?

[ShadowDragon]

I houserule a cap of rating 6 bows, and I divide the ranges in half. It just seems ridiculous that a bow can be more powerful than a panther cannon.

[cristomeyers]

The damage for bows is fully realistic. Honestly I see your average compound bow doing more penetration against body armor than the bullets (then again, aren't arrows resisted with Impact?)

An arrow shot from a longbow WILL penetrate armor at least somewhat, our compound bows can put out about that much power with pulleys and the pull of the bow.

Str min +2 without any AP is conservative.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Demerzel]

I think like much of Physics, this may be an equation that breaks down for large values. The issue at hand isn't the ability of an arrow to really mess someone up, it's the ability of an arrow to really mess an armored vehicle up.

Consider a Strength 13 Troll fires an arrow from a rating 13 bow. 15P is the base damage. Assume they get at least one net hit against an Armor 15 Body 15 vehicle. They defeat the hardened armor and so they do damage (15 + Net hits). The vehicle resists, on average the vehicle would get around 10 hits on the resistance test. Or the GM could say 30 dice sell them off at ¼ and that’s 7 hits. Lets give them the higher number for arguments sake (as a GM I wouldn’t buy off a roll that wouldn’t be a complete success, or near it). So the 15/15 armor/body vehicle takes 5 +Net hits damage.

Okay consider a HMG, 7p base damage –3 AP, give the man some Ex-Ex for fun, and that’s what, now 8p –4AP. If the shooter fires a narrow burst he has to get 4 net hits to achieve any damage at all. Then if he manages 4 net hits, he does 21 damage before resistance, give them the same average reduction of 10 and it does 11 boxes. This requires much more skill since it needs to bridge a larger gap to penetrate the vehicle armor.

Then what about an Assault Cannon? At 10P –5AP a Panther has the same armor penetration as a Rating 13 bow.

The question is should a single arrow be nearly as good, with less skill, against a vehicle as 9 rounds out of an HMG, or a shot from a Panther?

I don’t really have an answer to that, but if it were realistic wouldn’t the army use some sort of hydraulic ballista as an anti-tank weapon?

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Grinder]

[ornot]

I don't know a great deal about guns, but ancient siege weaponry is more potent than it's given credit for. A trebuchet, for example, can make a huge dent in something remarkably accurately, over a very long range. Very long reload times though, compared to a howitzer.

My biggest problem with the 15DV bow is the cost and availability. As a GM I would rule that it needed to be custom made (at great expense due to the materials involved. They have to be strong enough not to snap, and yet flexible enough to bend, and as we're talking about a compound bow with all its attendent pulleys... well, you see my point. Then there is the ammunition. This would be cheaper in terms of materials, but would still not be the kind of thing you could pick up off-the-shelf. And the size and bulk would mean that carrying a bunch of them would be impractible.

Hopefully this arguement would discourage hopeful troll archers, but if they don't fancy a Whiteknight with 100 eXeX rounds, they're welcome to the troll portable seige weapon and 6 or 8 arrows.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Jack Kain]

Ok A Strength of 13 is fairly massive. The Troll with a combat axe would be dealing 11P damage with an AP of -1. Thats just short of the bow's damage.
Just with his fists he'd deal 7S and with proper bioware 10P.

You could also just cap the bow at x strength at some point you reach diminishing returns or they simply can't construct a bow that can stand up that repeated stress.


Some times you have to throw in common sense. And say you can't damage a city master with an arrow. It can rend flesh like butter but an armored vehicle stops it cold.

[cristomeyers]

I'd say that any bow that requires a strength of 8 or more to pull isn't really going to be able to stand up to repeated use. Just the stress that amount of pull is going to cause is going to wear the bow out really quick.

Sorry, Troll Archers, you can't all be Odysseus.

[Thane36425]