 software copying and functioning, Agent/IC/Pilot in particular |
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  Mar 31 2007, 01:29 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 15-March 07 Member No.: 11,234  |
I want to here your take on software copying especially agents/IC/Pilot and their interchangeability with one another and as to what functions can thy make (for example can an agent code a program if instructed to):cyber:
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Mar 31 2007, 02:28 AM
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#2
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well, personally I consider IC to be nothing more then an Agent with certain program load-outs, Pilots to be a specialized version of an Agent, which I guess would mean that an Agent with the proper programs could do anything a Pilot could do, although off the top of my head I'd lean towards applying a slight penalty since the Agent is doing something that it isn't really meant to do...
As for coding programs, ect, unless the Agent has awakened into a full-blown AI, then no, it can't undertake anything truly creative, whether that is breaking copy protection, coding a program, writing a novel, or painting a picture. But thats just me whether its RAW or not. |
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Apr 4 2007, 08:32 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 29-March 07 From: Europe, Finland Member No.: 11,343 |
I've been wondering similar things for a while.
Let's say I got a rating 5 Firewall for my character's commlink. Now, a firewall is a firewall, no matter what system it's on, right? So I could take that firewall program and copy it to every drone my character has. Gee, that freed up a lot of money and yet all my drones have a nice Firewall of rating 5. Now I can use it to buy Pilot for those drones. Then the same issue for Pilots and drones. I could just buy one Pilot program and put that in all the drones. However, I figured that this might not work due to the drones being different (a flying microdrone likely operates differently from a boat), so maybe they could only be copied across drones that are of the same type (type being "personal car", "small flying drone", "medium crawling drone" and so on) or then exactly of the type and model (a Pilot from a Lockheed optic-X could only be copied to another Lockheed). Well, now that I've saved another pile of nuyen copying Pilots, I might as well do the same with Autosofts. Again, it might not be possible to copy them because the drones are different (a Clearsight intended for a boat works well inland in a little flying drone, indeed). Am I off my track here and missed a rule from the book, or is copying one of the best things ever? And does the drone's type limit what Pilot and Autosofts can be copied? (Of course it's all assuming that the programs are self-made or cracked so they can be copied in the first place, but yeah.) |
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Apr 4 2007, 09:13 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 14-November 03 From: MSP Metroplex Member No.: 5,822 |
My first cue is looking to reality. How many of us have pirated copies of Windows or Office? My second cue is to look at game balance. We're discouraged through the rules from buying a high Firewall and copying it to all our devices precicely because it saves so much nuyen, which translates directly to BP during character creation, and frees up more nuyen to spend on Panther Assault Cannons after creation.
As for the specific programs: Agents: These tend to be multipurpose programs, and are defined more by the programs they're running than the agent itself. Copying seems to make sense. Breaking the copy protection might be tough though. IC: as a type of agent, see above. Pilots: these are probably built specifically for the device they're controlling, and can probably only be copied onto an identical or sufficiently similar device. Maybe a hacker can tweak a pilot to run on a different device with a skill roll. I think an agent could edit code or duplicate code or copy a program if instructed to, but couldn't really write code on the fly to meet some specific need unless a programmer put a lot of work into setting it up to do so. Having duplicate Firewalls might leave a series of devices susceptible to hacking. What do you think? Defeating one might allow you to more easily defeat further copies. Maneuver Autosofts seem to be keyed to specific skill, so I think Maneuver (aircraft) works for all aircraft equally, and can be copied from aircraft to aircraft easily. The other autosofts seem to also emulate a skill (in fact, they're rolled in place of the rigger's skills), and as such should be as applicable as a skill. Dread Polack |
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Apr 4 2007, 10:35 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
I still see copy protection SR4 style to me more along the lines (but works better) of current Microsoft (or any 'activation' style).
The Defeat Copy protection is to make A working copy of the program. (that will pass the activation check). It does not allow you to make unlimited copies. (you have to make the test for EACH copy). This alone does wonders for limiting the 'abuse' of the system allowing everyone to have free rating 6 programs. Defeat Copy protection is NOT reverse engineering / re-coding the program to make the program have no copy protection. Rather it is hacking out another legitimate key / fooling the ssytem into making a one-to-one copy, etc. It needs to be done each time you want to make a copy. If actually 're-writting' the program to not have copy protection (or copy protection you are allowed to bypass (as the owner), then you need to actual 're-write' the code. |
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Apr 4 2007, 10:45 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
One thing to note on "Is copying the greatest thing ever".
Nothing states RAW if copying makes A copy or allows unlimited copies to be made. I go (to limit the abuse), that it makes A copy, it is NOT re-writting the code to remove the copy protection but rather bypassing it / finding a access code that allows you to make a copy. While still alot cheaper then buying. 1-4 hours PER copy of the program you wants limits it somewhat. |
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Apr 4 2007, 10:53 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 2-April 07 Member No.: 11,358 |
Based on current hardware apps, I'd guess that there's limited crossover within a brand. For instance, a Pilot program for a Lockheed Caiman F8077 (which I just made up) may work for any of the F8000 series (which, again making things up, includes a variety of small drones of different types of mobility), only the F8077a, F8077b, and F8077g (the F8077j using different hardware and software), or it may work for any amphibious drones that Lockheed makes, or it may work for every drone that Lockheed makes. Personally I'd tend to argue that the higher the Pilot rating, the more limited the program: it's easy to cover a broad variety of vehicles if you're writing crap code- they can't do much but hey, they all do it. Specialize and it becomes easier, more viable to do it better. Some high end companies may buck that trend and offer a very high priced program that'll work for a broad variety of drones- but you're not likely to copy it to everything in sight, either. Cracking it is going to be tougher. |
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Apr 5 2007, 12:43 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 163 Joined: 1-February 07 Member No.: 10,861 |
Also, I seriously think that companies should be embedding ice in their copy protection. That way if you glitch while trying to break it, you activate the IC and have to take care of that. And knowing how companies seem to feel about copy protection, it will probably always be black IC.
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Apr 5 2007, 09:56 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 29-March 07 From: Europe, Finland Member No.: 11,343 |
Agreed. Of course an enemy hacker hacking that firewall should have it easier every next time, too.
Then there's the issue of programs that are self-made. I'd ask my GM about it all, but I'm currently the GM as well as the most experienced player in our campaign, though I wasn't supposed to be, and I have a terrible urge to tweak my little hacker. Anyway, with self-made programs it'll be probably quite easy to copy them over and all, but them copyprotecting them is another issue completely...
Yet another good point. Now, what to use, what to use... Of course it's kind of moot since as long as I'm the GM, my players look like they'll be hackerless anyway. Hmm, maybe the Pilots could be modifiable so that an extended programming test of time x (day, week? Ideas on that?) would make the Pilot suitable if the threshold is achieved, and the threshold would be Pilot + 1 for a type change (watercraft pilot to aircraft pilot for example) or something like that. |
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Apr 6 2007, 12:45 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
If you (or your group) code the programs (have to be done 'in game' do not allow any 'time' pre-game to be spent on gear/items/etc), then your program has no real copy protection and can be copied at will. If you 'want' copy-preotection to me that would be making a specilaied 'encrypt' program, which would then determine the difficulty in copying the program. |
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Apr 6 2007, 02:43 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 29-March 07 From: Europe, Finland Member No.: 11,343 |
My first GM allowed my hacker to have self-made programs from the start (though of course I paid the nuyen/BP for it), but we didn't get to the copyprotection part... I assume that the ones who want to illegally copy a hacker's non-copyprotected program would still have to first hack the commlink and all, to get the actual code rather than its effects, right?
Hmm, that made me think about breaking copyprotection vs. making it. Breaking it should mean getting a new "activation key". What if the hacker just codes one activation key that will only work once in it... :) And, to prevent theft and the need to always recode the program, keeps the non-copyprotected code somewhere that can't be accessed online. |
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Apr 6 2007, 04:10 PM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Designing copy protection is an idle chore:
It takes months to design and hours to defeat. And both are done only once... until the next version. |
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