 Just went through an insane battle., What could we have done better? |
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 Apr 15 2007, 04:10 PM
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#176
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Hoppelhäschen 5000  Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951  |
Took you quite some time. :P
But, as stated, it doesn't matter. Vampires are not classed as homo sapiens and thus only legal entities if congress bestows them with... pretty much the only case being the late president Dunkelzahn. |
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Apr 15 2007, 05:47 PM
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#177
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
@hyzmarca: Thanks. It seems I was wrong in saying that the victim didn't need to be drained to 0 essence, but good points about it not actually being death, nonetheless.
Actually, Sasquatch are non-metahuman and considered sentient and can be legal citizens and the book says there is a campaign to have nagas treated similarly. And I think dragons are considered legal entities across the board, not just the Big D. There's also at least one cannon free spirit that has legal status (Buttercup). None of this touches what might be considered legal in corp jurisdiction. |
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Apr 15 2007, 05:54 PM
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#178
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Not in the UCAS. See SSG, p. 44.
As I said, there no problem for a Sasquatch or Spirit to become a citizen in the NANs or Tirs... just not the UCAS. |
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Apr 15 2007, 06:07 PM
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#179
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
SR4 under the critter section says that the United Nations recognized Sasquatch as sentient in 2042. |
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Apr 15 2007, 06:13 PM
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#180
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Which says what about vampires, or the UCAS?
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Apr 15 2007, 06:49 PM
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#181
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 9-December 04 From: former Bug City, now CFS Member No.: 6,875 |
I'm really glad that you are all having this wonderful conversation about the legal status of our various Awakened, infected, and un-"dead" bretheren. The level to which this conversation has progressed is very interesting. Bentham's Indirect Proof my be of use to you throughout the course of your many and varied deliberations.
I, however, are more interested in talking about the "insane battle" and other topics related to the original purpose behind this thread. Specifically: what are the cost and availability numbers for Fuel Air Explosives? |
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Apr 15 2007, 06:52 PM
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#182
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
It says that stating that vampires aren't legally people because they're not homo sapiens doesn't hold up when other non-homo sapiens are legally people. You said Dunklezahn was "pretty much the only exception." and I've just provided several species where non-homo sapiens are people. Earlier you said that vampires are not people because they are dead. We've discounted that one. We've also shown that due to the continuity they are distinct from shedim and bugs which were your other examples. The remaining case for vampires not to be legally people is your maintenance that they would not qualify due to being non-homo sapiens. Now I'm challenging that one. I think it would be absurdly silly for someone to try and prove in court that jane Wageslave is now non-human due to having contracted a disease and it's therefore permissable to murder her. I don't think that would get far at all in SR2070. It is not believable to me. |
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Apr 15 2007, 07:06 PM
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#183
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Nope. Each and every species needs to be 'added'.
Actually, this is twisted enough to be perfectly fitting for the world of SR - at least for me. ;) You know, a world were even unregistered humans don't have civil rights. |
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Apr 15 2007, 07:13 PM
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#184
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Save time and money - get a Demolitions skillsoft and build one yourself. ;) |
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Apr 15 2007, 09:27 PM
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#185
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 12-August 06 Member No.: 9,092 |
X-Men FTW |
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Apr 15 2007, 09:28 PM
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#186
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
They are a lot harder to build than people think, once you get past the dust initiator class. And they have lots more operational limitations than the casual observer might expect. |
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Apr 15 2007, 09:38 PM
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#187
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 12-August 06 Member No.: 9,092 |
I don't see a point in arguing about vampires civil rights or about court proceedings. We're runners, vampires are monsters (and so are ghouls), kill em if you see em. And as with all things we kill, just don't get caught, then what the law is doesn't matter.
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Apr 15 2007, 09:45 PM
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#188
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
If the creature is a talking serpent (naga) then they probably need to be "added". But if the creature is your employee Jane W., who has total continuity from before infection to after, still turns up for work and maintains all the same relationships and financial processes that she always did, then I think it would take a court case (and a big one) to "remove" her. We're not talking about adding someone in this case, we talking about "Your honour, I'd like to call as witness Proffessor Dubious from the University of Romania who will now testify that this individual has ceased to be human and I should now be able to shoot her." A very big difference. I just don't see it happening.
Strange, I see it the other way round. A world where someone who prays on the souls of others and cannot stand the sunlight is your manager is more dystopian, to my mind. Each their own, though. |
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Apr 15 2007, 09:47 PM
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#189
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Ah, but if you kill one, are you a murderer, or have you just commited a minor crime, like killing someone's pet rabbit? That would make a big difference. |
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Apr 15 2007, 10:01 PM
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#190
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
You meant "preys" on the souls of others, right? :D
... and this is different from normal megacorporate managers, how? Personally, I think vampires would tend to keep their condition as secret as possible (which is much easier for them to do than ghouls), whether they can have legal rights or not. They are still beings who inspire a lot of hate and fear, but also have the capability to grant effective immortality to others. Vampires living out in the open would attract attacks from vampire hunters, constant attempts to bribe/threaten/blackmail them into sharing their "gift', and worse of all, they would constantly be beseiged by WOD fanboys. |
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Apr 15 2007, 10:02 PM
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#191
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Please tell that to the HMHVV infectees that are neither cool nor angsty - ghouls. :P
Those views are not mutually exclusive. Especially as, like I said multiple times, it is completly up to a state or corporation what they accept as a person. If Joe Average turns into a vampire, he looses everything. If a CorpExec does, it just means that that his business associates have to re-arrange their shedules. Of course, if he ever should miss to produce results... |
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Apr 15 2007, 10:03 PM
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#192
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, it's Paranoia. |
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Apr 15 2007, 10:05 PM
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#193
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The main point of the joke was that you can't correct a Glitch when using Skillsofts - because you can't spend Edge. |
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Apr 16 2007, 12:43 AM
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#194
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Nah, vampires and ghouls are just people with a disease. The real monsters are trolls. They seduce our wives and ruin them for normal-sized men. :cyber: Paranoia, learn it; love it. Back to the insane battle, if one were willing to sacrifice the hostage then blowing up the house and everything in it would be a good idea. Personally, I say in every hostage situation the best solution is to kill all of the hostages. This way the hostage-taker loses all leverage over you and it discourages future hostage situations. |
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Apr 16 2007, 03:29 AM
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#195
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 9-December 04 From: former Bug City, now CFS Member No.: 6,875 |
Yeah, and then you don't have reason to hang around anymore.
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Apr 16 2007, 04:25 AM
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#196
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
They all only seduce the wives? Be afraid... :ork
I wonder if you'll gain notoreity with that policy. |
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Apr 16 2007, 04:39 AM
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#197
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
If you do get Notoriety, it might actually turn out to be a good thing. The real monsters are the IEs that walk around with high Force Orgasm spells. You cannot help but love them. |
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Apr 16 2007, 06:06 AM
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#198
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
That sounds like something from La Blue Girl. Is it can it be hentai SR time please? |
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Apr 16 2007, 05:49 PM
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#199
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
The whole question of the legality of the vampire is petty moot for this group. They have 3 street sams and a mage in their group. I'm pretty sure that they have enough stuff to get themselves arrested for their whole life without worrying about killing a vamp. Lonestar is just as likely to have major issues with them as with the vamp. |
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