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> Seraphim in SR4, How much of Coss did Ares come away w/?
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post Apr 14 2007, 10:48 PM
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Hello,

I'm a long time SR player that has been out of the loop for a while. I'm currently trying to catch up with all the fluff changes that have happened between SR3 and SR4.

I'm working on some background fluff for an NPC that is central to a campaign I'm writing. My original idea was to have this NPC be a member of the Seraphim, but in reading SR4 and SF it appears that CATCo is no more.

I was wondering if there is any mention of what happened to the Seraphim? Did Ares "inherit" them when then took over Cross? Did they all go rouge? Is there any official fluff one way or the other?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

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FrankTrollman
post Apr 15 2007, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE
Did they all go rouge?


So androgenous those Quebecoise.

----

More seriously, I don't think anything specific has been stated. If I have anything to say about it, Ares got the Cross medical division Info-Santé. But I don't think anyone ever even ventured an opinion as to who got the Seraphim.

Ares already has a special forces team (Firewatch), and their methods are... unique... enough that I doubt that they'd even want to get a bunch of people folded in from some other organization who had no loyalty to the collective or the mission.

-Frank
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Method
post Apr 15 2007, 12:47 AM
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er... right. Rogue then... :D

Thanks for the info. I tend to think of Firewatch more as a HTR kind of spec ops force. I guess it would follow that they have thier own intel gathering networks and probably would not like outsiders (especially outsiders they worked against for so long).
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PBTHHHHT
post Apr 15 2007, 03:57 AM
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heh, I wanted to make a comment about rouge too, but Frank just had a better comeback.

From what I've read, basically it's up in the air of what happened to Seraphim. Probably, many of them saw the writing on the wall and split off to make their own independent network. For many of them, they may have done too many things in ops against Ares that it would be unhealthy for them to be part of the same organization they've been working against.
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Ophis
post Apr 15 2007, 10:05 AM
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Actually I could see Damian Knight really wanting to acquire some Seraphim as they've been picking away at his security for years, the perfect people to find the holes so he can fix them, and to keep finding the holes as they understand how the security designers think.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Apr 15 2007, 11:32 AM
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IIRC, Aurelius took some of the ones loyal to him underground... with his liquidized shares and the will to get back at Knight.

Can you say Dankwalther 2.0?
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Demonseed Elite
post Apr 15 2007, 12:42 PM
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I think you all have the right ideas and there isn't a single answer with the Seraphim. It's likely that Knight convinced some of them to change sides to Ares. Others may have left entirely to find their own fortunes. Still others are probably hidden in the ranks of Ares, using their deep cover skills to remain unknown.
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less_than_vince
post Apr 15 2007, 05:38 PM
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In my game, Cross is now a AA or A corps. For the seraphim, some work for Cross, but some have become shadowrunner (see below). The players haven't meet them for now, but one of their Mr. Johnson is an ex-seraphim, a specialist in corps economie and trained in the art of counter-espionnage, profiling and torture. He is new to seattle, so his trying to recruit new players in the shadow, like the Pcs.

A squad of ex-seraphim (now called balseraph) are trying to take control of Cross and hurt Ares, to regain the AAA status. The players will confront them somehow.
For now, they take job as shadowrunner.

I'm from Quebec, so a little intrigue with Cross/Ares is cool for the Pcs.
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Grinder
post Apr 15 2007, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
I think you all have the right ideas and there isn't a single answer with the Seraphim. It's likely that Knight convinced some of them to change sides to Ares. Others may have left entirely to find their own fortunes. Still others are probably hidden in the ranks of Ares, using their deep cover skills to remain unknown.

So many possibilites for runs... 8)
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Apr 15 2007, 06:46 PM
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Or characters...
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Grinder
post Apr 15 2007, 08:00 PM
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Or both... :D
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Kyoto Kid
post Apr 15 2007, 08:11 PM
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...hmm, looks like Dark Angel needs to go out into the cold again...

Don't know how good she'd work out in 4th Ed. though since one of her primary implants (Chemical Gland - better known as her "Kiss of Death") hasn't been "re-introduced" yet and all the cool spy rules such as disguised gear from SOTA2064 went poof. It would also require a adding few more "homegrown" qualities like bringing back Dossier on File, Incomplete Deprogramming, and Flashbacks.

Had one player give up trying to design an effective "agent" type because of the BP costs, resources cap, and availability caps.
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Method
post Apr 16 2007, 12:17 AM
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Thank you all for the input/ideas.

I think I'm leaning toward making this NPC a rogue agent that went to ground after the shake up. Maybe with a personal agenda to keep the hurt on Ares because she doesn't know any other way.

Another idea: make her one of the agents that Ares "acquired" and have forced into their service by some nefarious means (kink bombs are a little cliche but something along those lines would be appropriate). Maybe shes moonlighting as a Johnson in the shadows and trying to orchestrate her own escape from her handlers...

So many possibilities really... :]


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FrankTrollman
post Apr 16 2007, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE
Another idea: make her one of the agents that Ares "acquired" and have forced into their service by some nefarious means (kink bombs are a little cliche but something along those lines would be appropriate). Maybe shes moonlighting as a Johnson in the shadows and trying to orchestrate her own escape from her handlers...


Ares has ways of ensuring your loyalty. Not necessarily to them, but your loyalty is assured.

-Frank
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MaxHunter
post Apr 17 2007, 06:32 PM
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oh yezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, master

; )

Max
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FlakJacket
post Apr 18 2007, 08:51 PM
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Off the top of my head here are the first five or six ways that it could go down that come to mind. And of course none of these are mutually exclusive, different parts of the Seraphim and individual agents could decide to go different ways and they all happen.

Independents - With the company going down in flames they decide to strike out for themselves. Maybe they go the independent contractor route, maybe they join up with a third party like another megacorporation or specialist firm such as Aegis Cognito. Hell, maybe even a government agency. As one of the premiere intelligence agencies in the world it shouldn't be too hard to get hired on their skills alone, the counterintelligence departments are going to be having a fit trying to work out if they're trustworthy or not though.

Collective Independents - Much the same as the independents only with these guys they decide to leave together and set up their own new group. Probably headed by a mid to mid high-ish manager that knows enough people to pull out and make it a viable proposition. Think proto-Aegis Cognito or Infolio that's still trying to find its feet.

Failing that they decide to bail on Cross but keep their influence through out Quebec and start trying to quietly take control of the place for themselves behind the scenes. After toiling away for so long they figure its time to make something for themselves.

Fanatics - These are the real true believers, the ones that were totally behind CATco's whole Francophone, highly isolationist Quebec with major cultural legislation ethos. They're looking for someone to blame for the death of their dream and when Ares moves in after the company goes down and starts looting the place they've found their target. They're going to carry on their vendetta with Ares with a vengeance despite their lost resources.

Another side to this are the ones who feel that letting Leonard Aurelius into the family firm was the start of the end and blame him for all of it 'cause hey, fanatics aren't really known for their logic on certain issues. Corp Download mentioned that a number of Seraphim distrusted him when he first came over and started trying to throw his weight around. These guys are going to be tracking Aurelius down and try to burn everything he owns down.

Orphans - SotA 2064 mentioned that a lot of deep cover agents in the 2060s use magic, drugs and ASIST biofeedback to submerge their true personalities so deep and take on their covers that they have no idea that they're a spy or who they were until they're activated or extracted back out - getting kidnapped to them. So you've these people scattered throughout Ares and all the other corps collecting data and working themselves into positions of power which represent an exceedingly valuable commodity. The details of these guys getting out - much like what happened with the eastern intelligence agencies when the Iron Curtain came down and the USSR came apart - is going to create fun and games. Maybe someone with the list decides to defect and set up a retirement package by selling it or auctioning blocks of names off through Asgard to the highest bidder. Or maybe the list somehow gets out into the open somehow, cue major chases and fighting to find it.

True Believers - And then there are these gals. Much like the fanatics in that they believe in the whole Cross/Francophone Quebec bit but not to such an extreme degree and they didn't get tipped over the edge by the whole crash thing. They're sticking with the company to try and rebuild it, or at least keep it above water until it can start to recover and keep Quebec firmly isolationist and under their control. What's good for Cross is good for Quebec.
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Method
post Apr 18 2007, 08:58 PM
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Thanks FlakJacket!! That is a great summary of the different possibilities.

I hadn't thought about the deep cover sleeper agents. I'm sure the different corps would be scrambling to find those people in thier rival corps and aquire the info they've accumulated.
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Kyoto Kid
post Apr 18 2007, 10:38 PM
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...I particularly like the Orphans option. Lots of potential there.

For Night Angel, definitely an Independent.
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