What rules to use in a H.A.L.O. jump?, not the video game... Options

[MaxHunter]

My enthusiastic group of player characters know that their next run will involve insertion of the team into hostile territory via a High Altitude Low Opening parachute drop.

They asked: "what are the rules for HALO jumps?" So I directed them to the Parachuting skill on the skills section. Nothing there. One character already has the skill, another one wants to get it for the run and the other two will use magic or technology to enable them participate in the jump (levitate, etc...)

Now, as a Gm, I haven't got many ideas about how to make the roll. I know the task has to be dangerous and exciting, but I do not want to kill the party on random dice. At the same time, they have spent karma and bps on the skill, so they want to roll their Parachuting dice at least once in their careers...

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Max

PS. I reckon I have not tried making the rules myself because I am absolutely too tired just now. I am looking forward to hearing from my fellow dumpshocked for inspiration.

[eidolon]

here's a thread that might have some good stuff for you: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...c=14867&hl=halo

Too tired to come up with anything new.

[kzt]

[Anythingforenoug...]

This is a skill that takes two weeks to learn for a class consisting entirely of skilled and experienced parachutists. It is, as the previous poster said, highly dangerous-there have been fatal accidents-even amongst instructors-at our (U.S.) school for teaching this.

Having said that, I am assuming that you are not planing to have the Run end for some or all of your pc's with them dying during the insertion drop. So I would set up a roll for accuracy (with failure being off course landing using something like the grenade scatter system)-and some check to see if they are injured in the process.

As the purpose of this type of operation is to conceal the jump by disguising the source aircraft as an ordinary commercial flight, whoever is setting it up would have extensive resources. In the time frame of shadowrun they would have access to smart-shoots (advanced versions of the GPS guided cargo shoots used now) that could land the players where they need to be without any roll at all. That does not mean, of course, that they would provide them for the players, but you could use that as a way to get past the insertion as a game mechanic difficulty and just have it as cool story flavor.

Sounds Cool,
AFE :nuyen:

[Fix-it]

I wouldn't be suprised if they replaced halo insertions with microlight aircraft.

helluva lot less dangerous.

[Wounded Ronin]

SR3 has rules for HALO jumps in the Cannon Companion. I'd check that out.

I even used those rules once. It was really funny. "Okay guys, roll for the jump...and don't get zero successes!" Luckily, noone did, because that would have sucked big time. :rotfl:

[nathanross]

Having a mage with them kind of changes things. Just levitate the group with a spirit using movement, or you could jump and then use levitate to slow you down as you get closer to the ground. Though I would do the calculations first as to how fast you are going at the point where you need to stop.

Or can anyone else say "Force 500 Catfall"? :eek:

With magic and the right spells/spirits, the whole thing looses some of it's tension. Handle it however you will.

[MaxHunter]

Loved your answers, I think I am going anythingforenoughnuyen's suggestion, i.e. some kind of smart navigation hardware that provides bonus dice coupled with a penalized parachuting roll for the jump (as kzt suggested) and a cardboard sign that says DO NOT CRITICAL GLITCH THIS ONE.

The runners are working for Ares, and the corp will be providing specific gear for the insertion and survival on hostile, hazardous territory.

One of the runners has already offered to provide some training to the others and they are going to train one or two weeks before the jump, that should offset the -2 penalty for no recent practice.

I haven't got the cannon companion right now, but I could check around with some friends.

All in all, I have enough info to manage that game situation already, thank you all very much.

Cheers,

Max

Ps: I tell you in a couple weeks how it turned out.

[Kyoto Kid]

...one of the original Missions (the book) also involved a H.A.L.O. jump. Unfortunately it was in the Arctic with a storm bearing down.

[PBTHHHHT]

And a slight tangent, why Halo, when you can 'glide' on in?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

There are glide-suits mimicking flying squirrels, too.

[Kyoto Kid]

...yeah, saw something like that on Discovery Wings once.

[hyzmarca]

Really, what they need to worry about is the parachute packing test, since there is no way to know if they glitch that until it is too late.

[Eleazar]

[Kyoto Kid]

[Aaron]

[Cheops]

[mfb]

i wouldn't use the SR3 rules for parachuting (HALO or not), as they really suck.

there should be two parts (maybe three) to any parachuting attempt: first, landing where you want to land; second, landing safely. third, optionally, is packing the parachute in the first place.

landing where you want to land depends partly on the pilot and partly on your ability to steer the parachute. you can probably assume that the pilot is spot-on every time in SR, given the ubiquity and accuracy of GPS tech. steering the parachute is easier with some chutes than others. your basic umbrella-looking no-fringes parachute, good luck; a high-tech rectangular chute with all the bells and whistles will make it much easier, depending on wind.

landing safely shouldn't be a parachuting roll at all. it should be an athletics roll, made as if you were attempting to negate falling damage. because that's what happens, when you parachute--you fall, and you fall pretty fast. slower with some chutes than others, but there's not a parachute yet made that you can't break your ankle while using. for extra-safe parachutes, treat it like jumping down from the top of your car. for parachutes not designed for extra safety, treat it like a one-story drop. for super-duper specops ninja parachutes, treat it like a story and a half, maybe two-story drop.

rigging (packing the parachute, not to be confused with plugging your brain into a car) isn't necessarily done by the parachuter at all, though i understand the guys who parachute regularly really prefer to pack their own chutes. it's their ass, after all. however, it's not going to take much from the game to assume that the rigger knows his shit and your parachute will open okay.

HALO jumping, there's two ways to get hurt. first, you can get hurt by not being prepared for the weather when you jump out of the plane. it might be nice on the ground, but way up high, it might be cold and wet enough to give you frostbite or worse. handle it however you normally deal with cold weather.

second, the "low-opening" part of HALO can sometimes mean really, really low. if you're HALOing into water, i understand it's possible to open your chute at less than a hundred feet and come out relatively okay (by "okay" i mean "really really sore and covered in a full-body bruise"). HALO damage should be higher than regular landing damage--two-story drop, definitely.

[PBTHHHHT]

[MaxHunter]

How I will do it:

Characters will be in a special depressurized cargo bay of a "commercial" plane, all geared up by their corporate sponsor.


I want the jump to be a detailed and memorable part of the run -it's their first use of the skill in a run- The rolls are just for the thrill / danger factor, description will of sensations will be the focus of that part. To appease the number cruncher in me, however, the jump will involve:

1-composture test to jump. if failed (no hits) the runner will refuse to jump on his own and the rest of the team will have to convince/force him quickly before the jump-frame expires. A glitch would involve some vomiting, a critical glitch means someone fainted. "pass me the salts, quick!!"

2-Second composture check for the diving part of the jump, the runners will have a penalty of -2 on their parachuting roll, each hit on the second composture roll removes one dice penalty. The outside conditions will be: dark, freezing cold and chilling winds, but the goggles, thermal insulation and the respirators they will be given will take care of that.

3-body + Parachuting -HALO specialization applies- with the following modifiers

-1 for Halo jump
-1 for night conditions
-2 if out of practice (probably most characters will train)
-2 for stressful situation (offset by previous composture roll)
-2 for tandem jump (it is a possibilty)

the jump's "scatter" will be handled as per the grenade rules, 2d6 kms in a random direction, each hit "corrects" the jump by 3 klicks. (guesstimation, of course, but good enough for me)

A glitch involves some part of the gear they are carrying gets lose when the parachute opens and falls somewhere. (scatter)

failing the roll enables the characters to roll again to open the parachute before crashing, but the scatter won't be corrected.

A critical glitch means the parachute won't open. fyyyyywww-thump!, smear on the floor -burn edge, or die omae.

4- Landing. Runners will land on harsh terrain, this is a damage resistance test, the amount of damage depends on the previous HALO roll:

Previous HALO roll:
no successes: the parachute opened too low: resist 12 boxes of damage (on second thoughts: 20? see below)
1 hit: 6
2 hits: 4
3 hits or more: 2

This is a Body + half impact armor + parachuting test to resist damage, runners can use gymnastics instead of parachuting if better.

glitching will involve banging some gear badly.

a critical glitch means a nasty accident; for instance: branch has impaled the character, a broken ankle, torn muscles or similar. Some physical penalty/ wound that needs mending will be in order. (bleeding for periodical stun damage; can't run / half walking movement; extra -2 penalty for physical actions, etc.)

Of course, in-fall or pre-fall casting is allowed, but a composture check (force/2, rounded uo) is necesary to sustain the spell. casting while diving receives a -4 dice penalty for horrible conditions. Anyway, too much magic in the air and the jump may be detected, according to magical surveillance around the drop zone.

This is what I got. Maybe it's a little rough, but so are halo jumps. I believe that runners will pull this out, even if it costs them some edge.

Comments? Rocks?

Cheers,

Max

edited to add more damage... :rotate:

[MaxHunter]

I have also thought of changing the "no successes" result of the Halo roll for a even more deadly arbitrary number; say, 20 boxes. Almost impossible to survive, but there is always hope. I mean, the runner got two instances to roll and get any hits before getting that result. I don't won't anyone to die here, but the chance of breaking one's neck should exist, even if remote.

Cheers,

Max

[Wasabi]

One way to do it is to have the Body+HALO roll (or IMO a Reaction+HALO roll) resist the damage via landing techniques.
A RL non-HALO chute from the 'T' series lands at 7mph. The lack of injuries in a modern military parachute jump is due to technique. In the future this can be assumed ot be handled by super-sophisticated chutes if the GM wants it easier. :-)
With a sophisticated chute they could have additional dice to their roll granted by the equipment or have the process automated by the chute itself. For example, the chute would not deploy underneath the jumper so little chance of them getting strangled/snagged by falling through their deploying chute.

The rolls (again IMO) should determine the following factors:

1. If they get out the door intact and in a fashion where they don't spin/spew/panic. An easy roll with a little pre-jump coaching and one that strongly affects the other, subsequent rolls.
2. Guide themselves through the air enough so the team isn't scattered over several miles.
3. Deploy the chute with enough body mechanics to not injure themselves from the sharp deceleration.
4. Land safely.

The first roll if they are prepared for it and don't glitch should allow the subsequent rolls to go without additional penalty but guiding yourself in freewall while cartwheeling uncontrollably could be... counterproductive... as would cartwheeling uncontrollably through the air while the chute almost instantly changes your speed from (making numbers up here) 100mph to 3mph in a period of very few seconds.

Those are my thoughts. I've never HALO jumped but I have jumped in the military and the landing never scared us as much as things like getting dragged behind the plane (not a factor in HALO), midair collisions, or equipment deployment. Some parts are effectively spring loaded by the way they are packed so complications can be... odd.

I'd have the Parachuting skill be used for all of the above rolls or have them default and if the playesr do default have different stages of the jump call on different attributes.

Getting out the door and entering a several hundred mph windstream could be Reaction... guiding through the air could be Reaction.... deploying the chute could be Agility... and landing safely could be Body. This makes it so a wizbang physad could do it with amazing stats but keep the parachuting more 'technical' a more practical method.

The other thing you could do to make it easier on your runners is say that a BK: Parachuting knowsoft would add to their rolls as they would then know the technique even if they didnt know firsthand how to do it. It would make hitting key points-of-performance easier by giving them essentially an instructor/coach in their mind as they fell. they may not know what an opening shock of a chute feels like, for instance, but they could know to keep leaning forward slightly as they open the chute so their back straightens and absorbs some of the opening shock instead of transmitting 100% along the spinal cord.

Its a fine line... sure... but those are my thoughts.

[My RL quals are 31 non-HALO jumps with the 1/501 PIR... Geronimo!]

[Kyoto Kid]

[Eryk the Red]

I know a guy whose uncle was a paratrooper back in Vietnam (I think). When my friend asked him about jumping from a plane in the war, his response was "I didn't jump, I was pushed!"

The only reason to jump from a plane is that it's on fire, says I.

[Wounded Ronin]