 Aztechnology and Bugs |
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 Apr 17 2007, 08:32 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 546 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Manchester, England Member No.: 1,062  |
Reading Universal Brotherhood, it mentions that Aztechnology were the only company who were seriously against it's staff joining up to the UB. Obviously, they had some inside knowledge on the subject, but is there any canon info as to what the relationship between the Azzies and Bugs is? If so, what is it, and where can I find it?
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Apr 17 2007, 09:32 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 571 Joined: 9-January 05 From: In the 9th circle of hell Member No.: 6,950 |
I would assume that since Aztechnology was connected with the horrers, they probably knew exactly what the bugs were. The Invae (bug spirits) pulled the same trick in Earthdawn.
I would also guess that the horrers didn't like bug spirits taking over people because a.)then they are likley immune to some horror abilities b.)get's in the way of the horrors agenda c.) THAT'S OUR FRAGGIN JOB! If nothing else, upper managment knowing the score wouldn't like the idea of their wageslaves being more loyal to anyone else. Much less eitherial beings from another relm with unknon motivations. At least with Ares, you can kinda guess what they are up too. |
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Apr 17 2007, 09:55 PM
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#3
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
I think it's mainly the whole loyalty stuff, why would you want your loyal corp citizen-employees partake to have loyalty to another organization? See also in Threats 2, there's a small blurb in the Templar section of how some of them are in Aztlan protecting the Catholic faithful there. It's sort of similar, Aztechnology doesn't want anybody there to be loyal to an outside organization (in that case, the Church)... that and also the opposing viewpoints in the whole religious/social aspects too. |
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Apr 17 2007, 09:55 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
The Azzies might have known what the bugs were, but the Horrors wouldn't care what they did. Harlequinn made it clear the the Horrors would eat the Bugs too, just like everything else.
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Apr 17 2007, 11:18 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 26-February 06 Member No.: 8,309 |
The Azzies also pimp the Aztec religion pretty hard as the official Aztlan religion. In Corporate Download they mention that all the Aztechnology sites have chapels for it, or some such thing. So as far as they're concerned the Brotherhood is competition for their own home-grown cult.
As for me, I'm not sure the Azzies are necessarily in the Horror's pocket. I read it as the Aztlan vs. Amazonia conflict mirrors the "good blood magic" vs. "bad blood magic" civil war that the Feathered Serpents seem to have gone through back in the Earthdawn days. Admittedly, the bad mojo Azzies are more susceptable to horror infestation. But I think it's a fine but distinct line. (Then again, this would mean they likely knew about the Bugs, and were smart enough to stop it. That's why Ares seems to be the other anti-bug corp, afterall). |
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Apr 17 2007, 11:49 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Let's not be mistaken here. Ares is the pro-bug corp.
~J |
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Apr 17 2007, 11:55 PM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Aztechnology has always been at the forefront of anti-insect activity, at least inside Aztlan. Mention has been made of Aztlan going to some pretty extreme lengths to root out all insect infestation in their ranks.
Honestly, I don't think this has anything to do with the horror pacts that they were making when Dunkelzahn was on the board. While they doubtless did know what the insects were up to, and they did take an immediate dislike to them, I really don't think this was because the horrors told them to purge the bugs. The horrors don't really seem to care about the bugs, despite the fact that the bugs definitely seem to hate the horrors. The horrors look at everyone as food; man and insect spirit alike. The decision to hunt the insects came from elsewhere in the organization. Possibly Dunkelzahn, whose response to insect incursion has always been to throw a hammer at it. But more probably from the Nahuali at the top. Aztlan is a religious entity in addition to a corporation and a nation state. The Nahuali are genuinely concerned about the fate of the souls of the people of Aztlan, and their reaction to Insect spirits is one of horror. Sure, if you're a pragmatist like Damien Knight you can rationalize a Flesh Form as retaining continuity with the original peson because the memories are shared. But if you're an Aztec Priest and you believe that the continuance of the Essence is identity and the only hope to keep the sun rising day after day - then obviously there is no possible truce you can make with the bugs. --- So yeah, the very instant one of the dragons explains what the Insect Spirits do, then the religious faction of Aztechnology would just get up and go to work on an inquisition all on their own. It's not even important whether it was Dunkelzahn or Inti Jiwana who spilled the beans. Heck, maybe they both did just to give the zealots something to do... -Frank |
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Apr 18 2007, 07:14 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
Inti Jiwana?
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Apr 18 2007, 01:40 PM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
I'm not sure if Frank is referring to this specifically, but Inti Jiwana is a very important concept in South American religion. It's the idea of the death of the sun/god. The theme comes up in religions ranging from the Andes to the American Southwest and a similar theme is huge in Aztec religion. The Aztec religion believes that the sun dies and each time it does it ushers in a great cataclysm and eventually a new age. It has happened before and could happen again. To the Aztecs, the only way to prevent it is through genuine devotion and sacrifice.
I would almost think that Frank has read my Aztlan chapter in SoLA. ;) Aztec religion is very specific that sacrifice, often blood sacrifice, is necessary to prevent the death of the sun and the coming apocalypse. Also, as has been mentioned, devotion is equally important. The Catholics and the Universal Brotherhood both threaten devotion to the Aztec gods. So whether or not someone in Aztechnology knew about the Invae (and chances are at least one person did), they have many reasons to be against them. |
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Apr 18 2007, 01:58 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Hmmm... so Aztechnology should also capture as many of the fleshforms as they can so they can sacrifice them rather than just wiping them all out?
edit: Nah, never mind, sacrificing spirits would do nothing I guess. Just ignore my random thought. |
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Apr 18 2007, 04:52 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Actually the fact that sacrificing them does nothing is extremely important. It is "proof" that the Insect Spirits destroy the animal spirits of people leaving them as nothing but husks of corn. That means that their deaths cannot feed the hungry gods and their existence hastens the end of the world. If you happen to subscribe to Azteca, then it all follows quite lgically. If someone cannot be sacrificed that necessarily means that the Sun is not being fed and it Ends in Darkness.
Jus the corp section which references that chapter I'm afraid. But even having seen actual excerpts I still do not believe that book exists. :P -Frank |
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Apr 18 2007, 06:48 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 546 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Manchester, England Member No.: 1,062 |
So the Azzies do want them dead. So why leave it to their deadly rivals - Ares - to clean them up? And what happens when they find out Ares' dirty little secret?
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Apr 18 2007, 09:02 PM
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#13
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
The pain, the pain! :eek: :( |
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Apr 18 2007, 09:55 PM
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#14
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Ares is the only corp that actually understands how the bugs work. The Azzies kill everyone who is inhabited by an insect spirit, and they kill everyone who summons insect spirits, and... that's all they do. That's all they can do. They can't go to the metaplanes and slay the queens in the citadel, preventing tem from ever investing their power into a new magician. They can't convince any hive to go do something else. They just fight and kill. And they don't win. They can't win because the Insect Spirits don't live here, they live elsewhere and they only send their members into this plane of existence when they are feeling strong over there. Ares, on the other hand hasaan entirely different strategy which is more effective for their goals. By getting groups of insects to sign on they alone are able to send troops back to the Insect's metaplane. They can actually destroy hives permanently, and they do. And in exchange they cause real fear to the remaining hives, and they can offer them military aliance that the remaining hives understand and respect. And that way they get more hives to sign on with them, which gives them an even better force against the recalcitrant hives... Aztlan is the most successful of the groups that simply plays whack-a-mole with the Invae as they appear. But that strategy is bullshit and ultimately pointless. Ares is the only organization with a halfway decent new plan. The fact that it appears to involve getting hives to ally themselves with it is an added bonus. If Ares has their way, there will be no remaining hives that are not on friendly terms with humanity. -Frank |
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Apr 18 2007, 10:00 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
or at least with Ares and Damien Knight--who will then reveal himself to be a Horror!
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Apr 18 2007, 11:01 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
fixed :P |
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Apr 19 2007, 04:39 AM
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#17
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
On friendly terms with Ares, you mean. Not humanity as a whole. ;) Personally, I like the strategy of Aztech more, 'cause it doesn't have the "dealing with the devil" feel. |
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Apr 19 2007, 06:40 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
...it hurts. I physically shed a tear when I read DE's reply. |
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Apr 19 2007, 09:10 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
Is that a spoiler or something you made up ? I mean from where did you get this information ? I would really be pleased to know more about it :) |
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Apr 19 2007, 01:49 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
It's a scary day when Aztechnology is the more comfortable option. And mfb's comment about Damien Knight isn't canon. I think it was more of a joke. ;) |
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Apr 19 2007, 02:17 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Meh. Today's enemies are tomorrows allies. It has already been discussed how the Invae are not really "evil", just alien. If they can respect a treaty, I don't care if they are repulsive. I mean, what the heck is "Bubble and Squeak?" I don't know and I don't want to, but the Brtis are great enemies turned allies. |
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Apr 19 2007, 02:24 PM
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#22
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Do you seriously believe that they respect treaties with us? Do you respect treaties you make with a bowl of mashed potatoes and gravy, or a delicious fruit pie?
~J |
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Apr 19 2007, 02:51 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Often, but those treaties are more along the lines of "And I'll keep this in the fridge so it doesn't go bad before I eat it." |
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Apr 19 2007, 03:26 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
If the fruitpie can make it's way from the shop to my home via metaplanar access, and then burn my parents, friends and everybody else, then yes sir, I shall honour the treaty with the fruitpie. |
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Apr 19 2007, 03:33 PM
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#25
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
It is. But in this case, I prefer the "shoot them all"-solution that Aztech uses.
Alliances don't last forever - Ares will have to deal with the bugs the same way Aztech actually does sooner or later. |
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