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> Adept Traditions
Meriss
post Apr 19 2007, 04:50 PM
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This occured to me last night right before bed. Is there such a thing as Adept traditions? Or am I just doing way too much Bliss? Now a small explanation is in order. The reason I ask about traditions is that, if you have two adepts with the exact same stats, say threes across the board and the same powers. But they are from different backrounds say one is a NAN warrior and the other is a Yak. Do they manifest their powers in the exact same way? Mechanically they are the same but fluff wise they aren't. How does this work?
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Demerzel
post Apr 19 2007, 04:55 PM
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The rulebook actually mentions that a tradition can be chosen by an adept, but it is really flavor only. I can't say the page without my book, but someone else may point it out more exactly.
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FrankTrollman
post Apr 19 2007, 05:05 PM
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Street Magic, page 44 talks about Adet ways.

-Frank
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Demerzel
post Apr 19 2007, 07:34 PM
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I was refering to:

QUOTE (p186 SR4 Core)
Adepts can have traditions, just as any other magician.  There is no in-game rules benefit for choosing a tradition; the decision is up to the player, and simply serves as a method of describing their world and outlook more fully.
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Luddite
post Apr 19 2007, 07:36 PM
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Also the description of the Ways in SotA 2064 are pretty good, and I think somewhat more in depth than the treatment in Street Magic.
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mfb
post Apr 19 2007, 07:38 PM
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there's nothing to "work". it's all fluff. the NAN warrior uses his IA: Edge Weapons with a tomahawk, the Yak uses IA: Edge Weapons with a katana. the NAN warrior lets out a freaky-sounding eagle cry when he uses Smashing Blow, the Yak belts out a "hiii-ya".
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Meriss
post Apr 19 2007, 08:02 PM
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Ahh but what about mystic armour and the slightly more fluffy stuff. Is it the same across the board or does it look/feel different.
@Frank, care to post more on Adept Ways as I don't have a copy of Street magic yet?
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mfb
post Apr 19 2007, 08:15 PM
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there is no pre-defined look or feel for any power. the look/feel of every adept power is completely up to you.
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Demerzel
post Apr 19 2007, 08:18 PM
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Adept ways are less than traditions, and almost less than fluff. The concept is that you have a way. Like the Athlete's Way, or the Speaker's Way. There is a line that says something to the effect of it's harder to gain power if you dont' have a way, however Ways have no mechanics, so that statement is unsupported.

It's mostly a concept, like if I choose the Warrior's Way I'm choosing it because I want a canned RP reason to have a dirth of combat oriented powers.

To me the one paragraph description in the core rulebook, couppled with the generous set of traditions between SR4 and SM go farther to help you flesh out a character than the one page (If you don't count the pic of the kicking man) of ways...
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Meriss
post Apr 19 2007, 08:45 PM
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Kewl thanks Demerzel.
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Whipstitch
post Apr 19 2007, 09:15 PM
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Yeah, the way SM characterizes adepts seems to indicate that Adepts aren't really as "rules" oriented as Magicians are. To put it one way, Magicians act as conduits for raw powers greater than themselves and have to abide by certain self-imposed limitations to survive such activities; Adepts, on the other hand, use magic mostly to live up to their own idealized self image. That's why they're less reliant on traditional practices and chants; somatic magic is less about channeling the raw power of the astral and more about personal growth.
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TheOOB
post Apr 19 2007, 10:08 PM
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Well the big difference between adepts and magicians is that adepts do not have to know how their powers work, heck some adepts dont even know their awakened. An adept with improved reflexes doesnt need to know some complex formula or anything like that, they just move faster, but for a magician to cast a spell they need to know the spells formula and have studied the magic and so on.

A tradition is basically how your character belives magic works (at least for them), and since adepts mainly do not work magic(they just have supernaturally good abilities), they dont need to know how they do it, thus a tradition for a adept is purely fluff.
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mfb
post Apr 19 2007, 11:16 PM
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well, it's more that the rules don't dictate that they know how they do it. i've got one adept whose powers are all geased to armor/weapons he's designed himself. he does lethal damage with his punches because he's got knucklebombs (thank-you Bubblegum Crisis); he jumps further because he's got rockets in his boots. stuff like that. he knows exactly how his stuff works. but that's just semantics, i guess.
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Meriss
post Apr 20 2007, 03:08 AM
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In other words "There is no spoon"
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Glyph
post Apr 20 2007, 03:30 AM
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I thought the "ways" were extremely lame, anyways. Why should adepts have to pidgeonhole themselves, and (in SR3) get penalized if they don't? It's like penalizing a street sam when he opts to improve his etiquette or infiltration instead of his pistols skill. I can tolerate them much better when they are solely flavor.

I think the only "penalty" adepts should face for not following a way stringently is that they won't be quite as good as the focused specialists (in other words, if you get some improved senses and multi-tasking, you will fall behind the driven warrior's way adept who puts all of his points into things like combat sense and counterstrike). On the other hand, their versatility will often more than make up for their lack of hyper-focus.
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nathanross
post Apr 21 2007, 05:03 PM
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First off, a slight detailing of the ways:

The Spirit Way
Adepts following the spirit's way use their powers to see into the astral plane.

The Warrior's Way
Channel their abilities into fighting.

The Artist's Way
What more to say...

The Athlete's Way
Channel their magic into being good at their particular sport.

The Invisible Way
Ninjas.

The Speaker's Way
Lawyers.

The Shamanic Way
Adepts that wasted 5BP on a mentor spirit just so that everyone knows they are awakened when the Shamanic mask comes out every time they use their powers. Though I would love to see a fox face who seems to look like a fox every time he is coning someone.

The Magician's Way
Mystic Adepts.

Sorry if some of my descriptions are lazy, I since they are all fluff Bullsh*t. I agree with Glyph, all of this is just for fluff. What is most important is that you understand what you adept's motivations are, and have a clear character concept. Other wise playing an adept is just number crunching.
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Kyoto Kid
post Apr 21 2007, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (TheOOB)
Well the big difference between adepts and magicians is that adepts do not have to know how their powers work, heck some adepts dont even know their awakened. An adept with improved reflexes doesnt need to know some complex formula or anything like that, they just move faster, but for a magician to cast a spell they need to know the spells formula and have studied the magic and so on.

A tradition is basically how your character belives magic works (at least for them), and since adepts mainly do not work magic(they just have supernaturally good abilities), they dont need to know how they do it, thus a tradition for a adept is purely fluff.

...This is why I also have an issue with the need to make an Arcana (which if you read the skill description has Absolutely nothing to do with adepts) test to join an adept group.

KK4.4 has no idea why she can do what she can do. Oh yeah, a mage she once knew tried to explain it, but she was only thirteen at the time. She feels it just comes with dedicating herself to her art through daily workouts, time at the firing range, meditation, keeping to the teachings of her Sensei, and a healthy lifestyle (or at least as healthy as one can have in 2070). Yes you could call that a "way" but is is very personalised and actually brings in several of the categories in Street Magic most notably the Warrior, the Athlete, and the invisible. Considering her "style" if asked she would say she follows the "Bushido Gunslinger Way".

Since it is all fluff anyway I think it should be whatever the character makes it out to be.

[thinking to self] ...hmm electro mop (strands made from shock frills), spray bottles filled with various toxins, the "Key Ring of Doom" (sharpened keys for throwing with Missile Mastery) Victory Armoured Coveralls (from Cannon Companion), A little Unarmed combat & Critical Strike with killing hands...aha! the Cleaner's Way"! (oops wrong thread) :silly: :silly: :silly:
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nathanross
post Apr 21 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Posted on Apr 21 2007, 03:23 PM)
[thinking to self] ...hmm electro mop (strands made from shock frills), spray bottles filled with various toxins, the "Key Ring of Doom" (sharpened keys for throwing with Missile Mastery) Victory Armoured Coveralls (from Cannon Companion), A little Unarmed combat & Critical Strike with killing hands...aha! the Cleaner's Way"! (oops wrong thread)

Yeah, where is the Janitor's way? Wouldnt that be great, the runners are running away from the Red Samurai when out steps a little Japanese janitor holding his mop. It aint the Red Samurai who are head of this here establishment, should have done your legwork properly. :D
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Glyph
post Apr 21 2007, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (nathanross)
The Shamanic Way
Adepts that wasted 5BP on a mentor spirit just so that everyone knows they are awakened when the Shamanic mask comes out every time they use their powers. Though I would love to see a fox face who seems to look like a fox every time he is coning someone.

I would agree, mostly. But there are a few mentor spirits that are definitely worth 5 BP for the advantages that they give you. Owl can give your detective +2 to perception tests (as well as assensing tests if you pick up astral perception). Moon Maiden gives your face +2 to negotiation tests. These are the best two, since their disadvantages (-1 die for combat spells) won't affect the adept.

There are others that give bonuses to things such as resisting damage, a social skill, gymnastics, or infiltration, but they all have disadvantages, usually of the "make a Willpower plus Charisma (3) test to avoid doing something in a certain circumstance" type. But if the disadvantage doesn't seem too crippling and/or fits your character, they still might be worth it to get +2 dice in something.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the shamanic mask is optional flavor exhibited by only some. You don't have to have it if it wouldn't fit your character. A bear adept who exhibits a shamanic bear mask when berserk would be pretty cool, but your example of a fox adept face would run into all kinds of problems.
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mfb
post Apr 22 2007, 01:44 AM
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i dunno. it says there's no in-game rules benefit for choosing a tradition. seems like a crappy deal, i guess--you have to pay for it, but you get nothing from it.
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Glyph
post Apr 22 2007, 02:58 AM
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Traditions don't really cost anything - I think you are thinking about mentor spirits.
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nathanross
post Apr 22 2007, 03:03 AM
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Chosing a totem/mentor is not choosing a tradition, choosing a tradition is completely fluff. Like saying your adept is a voodoo adept is to say that his background, relations are in voodoo and he will be familiar with all the traditions and rituals even though he does not perform them himself.

Same way a Muslim adept sees his abilities as a gift/curse from Allah. It's just how they see it.

@Glyph, you are right that it can add +2 dice to some tests (usually social or perception/assensing), but 5BP for +2 dice? That is just a waste. Spend your BP raising your charisma or taking specializations, Improved Ability or Enhanced Perception. Shamanic masks can be a bitch as well (thats why I gave the fox example, whats the point of getting +2 Con when you wear it on your face?).

Maybe your GM will give it to you for free for fluff reasons, but you still have to wear the mask.
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Demerzel
post Apr 22 2007, 04:55 AM
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Improved Negotiations 2 would cost half a power point (.25 per level), each power point costs 10bp so 5bp for + 2 negotiations that does not affect your skill cap such as improved ability does would be great.

On the other hand where is it that a pure adept can take a mentor? I thought the book said, Magicians and Mystic Adepts.
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Ravor
post Apr 22 2007, 05:42 AM
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Although I'm feeling too lazy to crack the book to check, I also seem to remember reading somewhere (I think possibly in Street Magic) that Adepts might be able to adopt a Mentor, but that the DM should only allow the ones whose Downside would actually matter...
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TheOOB
post Apr 22 2007, 06:02 AM
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Considering that most mentor spirits downside have little to do with the acual act of sorcerery and conjuring thats not a real problum, the big problum is that most mentor spirits dont have benefits that are applicable to adepts, though that wouldn't be hard to fix. For example, you could change the seductress to +2 Ettiquite and Con, and keep the downside the same and boom, perfect social adept mentor spirit.
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