Shutting down the WiFi, About at wits end, here. |
Shutting down the WiFi, About at wits end, here. |
May 4 2007, 10:24 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
Ok, I've about had it with the whoooooole WiFi thing. First off, as everybody knows, wireless networks are far less secure than wired ones, despite all the precautions that one might take. Second, with the amount of information being sent wirelessly, who knows what effects it could have on people and animals? There have already been concerns about cell phone signals screwing with bee's navigations. No bees, no pollination, and things begin to get bad.
I rather liked the Matrix of the last decade, and am considering having a THIRD crash that leads to a regression back to (predominatly) wired tech. What do you guys think? Is it just me? Would anyone be interested in working on house rules to make the Matrix wired again? |
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May 4 2007, 10:30 PM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,647 |
In my games, corporate security planners have not abandoned all reason. Nor have PCs and NPCs. As a player, runners on my team are intelligent in their use of wireless equipment. There is still a place for a simple FM analog transceiver., and PCs (and NPCs) recognize this. As a GM, the world in general recognizes there are times where security trumps convenience.
Similarly, security planners in my world still get their way some of the time. However convenient wireless technology is, there are secure places in my own game world where wireless is simply inappropriate. Outside connections to the matrix are hard-wired and heavily secured (both physically and virtually) or non-existant (in the case of ultra-secure facilities). Use common sense, is my motto. |
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May 4 2007, 10:49 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You could also assume that everyone didn't get their brain eaten and remembers how to write encryption algorithms that work. In terms of shadowrun plausibility, I'd argue that Magic returning is more likely than people cracking decent encryption in seconds with hand held computers.
In the real world there are wireless networks approved for transmitting classified data. Given that cracking a 128 bit cypher will release several megatons of waste heat I think that whoever wrote the matrix rules hasn't the foggiest clue what encryption really is, how and why it is used on computer networks and why the laws of physics make it difficult to crack. |
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May 5 2007, 12:37 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 28-April 07 Member No.: 11,557 |
I see no particular reason why, in a highly-secure installation, you would have exclusively wireless cameras, sensors, databases, and other sensitive peripherals. These things need wired power, so it's trivial to ratchet security up by wiring the network too. Shadowrunners will go partially-wired for best security too (skinlinks, old-school datajacks, etc.), and corp security techs aren't stupid. It gives players a chance to use other tech skills to find and patch into these wired networks as well.
The sheer convenience of wireless will mean that low-to-mid security areas will have varying ratios of wireless to wired. Because employees need to accomplish actual work, there WILL be hackable wireless nodes that can be used to get into almost any wired systems... it just might not be a cakewalk all the time, since it introduces gateways where security can be concentrated. And the REALLY hairy sites won't have any wireless access to the Good Stuff. That said, I refuse to go back to the old SR (and old Cyberpunk) methods of carefully mapped networks, like a mini-dungeon to occupy your hacker. There might be gateway wireless nodes into the more secure wired nodes, but I don't want to return to the good old days of "Ok team, chill for an hour or so while the decker plays with the network...". |
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May 5 2007, 02:02 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
Way I've been pondering it is to assume that 15-25% of any serious security system is wireless. IMO they bought a crapload of wireless gear right off the bat to get back on their feet post-Crash2. Then they decided to keep it but put it in as a secondary role, mainly that of unpredictability.
One problem with any security system is that it costs a fortune to significantly modify it. But, if one sensor out of every 4-6 are portable, you can change your security profile relatively easily. Your fixed installation will provide your baseline coverage but the wireless supplements and acts as a wildcard. Mom'n pop shops, stripmalls, stuffershacks, and the like will continue to rely almost exclusively on wireless just because it's cheap and doesn't require much planning; unbox it, subscribe it, screw it on the wall, set a reminder to change the batteries in three weeks. |
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May 5 2007, 02:20 AM
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#6
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I have posted a description of how one could securely use a ubiquitous wireless internetwork, in a manner consistent with the RAW, in other threads. However, I am posting this on my Palm TX while sitting in on a Shadowrun Missions game at my FNGS, and I've already spent five minutes just writing to this point (call it a demonstration of a low System and Response Rating). Would someone be so kind as to apply their search-fu in my place?
Incidentally, I've been thinking of making an explanatory Flash animation or something equally accessible to people who are non-technical, although some of my colleagues tell me I should patent it first. |
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May 5 2007, 04:19 AM
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#7
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Never mind, I'm home now. Audio example of hacking: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?act=...ndpost&p=524056 I'm not finding anything good describing a way to send and receive messages wirelessly in a search of all my posts, and I may just be missing it, so I'll just write that part again. Let's say we have a message, like "Attack at dawn." For whatever reason, I don't have any encryption scheme available, so instead I'll split the message up into an arbitrary number of unintelligible segments and send them via the same number of couriers. Each courier will take a different route and deliver their segments at varying times. Let's say I choose five segments for my message. I then number each character of my message, counting off by fives. I then have something like this:
Then I group all like numbers together, and get the following five messages:
Now, the couriers don't know the message, and they can't figure it out by just looking at the message that they carry, unless they know into how many parts the message was split, and I didn't tell them. Heck, I might even send a few decoy couriers, just in case. The couriers each give the message to the recipient, who reassembles the message. Therefore, provided each courier takes a different route, the wireless message is safe, except where one can read all of the message, which only happens on either end of the communication path. The RAW reflects this by limiting wireless eavesdropping to areas within Signal range of the victim. (Boyle et al. 225) Does that make sense? |
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May 5 2007, 04:55 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
The guys who wrote the rules may not know much about the gritty details of why encryption is so hard to break, but they certainly realize that encryption is a helluva lot stronger today than the stuff put into the RAW. They flat out admitted it was a design choice in the FAQ, since the entire point of what they've done to the matrix is to keep the game from degenerating to a staring contest between the hacker and a pile of stubborn dice. Encryption is simply one of the casualties. |
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May 5 2007, 04:52 PM
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#9
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
You know, although mesh networks, ect are mentioned in RAW as being the bottom layer of the Matrix that most people interface with, you can't find anywhere stating that yes, everything in the Matrix is indeed wireless, and the only description of how the Matrix's topology actually works describes 'hardwired base stations' and local infrastruture, which in a truly ad-hoc wireless network wouldn't be needed.
So I'd say that it isn't much of a stretch if any to say that although your average wageslave interfaces with the corps network via wireless for his day job, after that bottom level most everything switches back to good old fashioned wires. Oh and Aaron, I am perfectly and painstakingly aware that in real-life it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to set up what is supposed to be a 'wireless Matrix' the way that RAW describes it as being set up, but Shadowrun computers have never really followed the model of 'real life' anyways, the latest example being Encryption that doesn't hold up to a strong sneeze. |
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May 5 2007, 05:02 PM
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#10
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..you mean, like data encryption algorithms that took a single action to break with a deck? :rotfl: |
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May 5 2007, 05:50 PM
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#11
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...and this is why a datajack is still useful. |
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May 5 2007, 06:34 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
take decss and aacs keys, but mix in swat strikes on the people spreading them, the server parks housing them and so on... thats shadowrun encryption for you... |
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May 6 2007, 04:18 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
You run a plug from your comlink into the port of the isolated system and then attack/login as normal. The extra hole in your head is no longer needed. |
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May 6 2007, 06:47 AM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
...or Trodes |
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May 6 2007, 01:37 PM
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#15
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
And when your commlink is an implant ...? |
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May 6 2007, 01:48 PM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..you get yourself a plug with wifi build in.
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May 6 2007, 03:48 PM
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#17
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
hah. bullshit pseudoscience. we would have seen the effects by now. there was a story circulating about the bees thing. but I can't count the number of wifi points in my neighborhood, and I still have a bees nest out my window. same thing with bumblebees. they are not affected by ghz range signals. there was no scientific study backing up that story. |
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May 6 2007, 04:17 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Bee thing (Colony Collapse Disorder) on wikipedia.
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May 6 2007, 04:25 PM
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#19
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Do you know one of the things that brought down the Roman Empire was postulated to have been their adoption of lead piping? They couldn't see anything wrong with it and the effects took quite a while to show. But the ruling classes of Rome were steadily poisoning themselves. The question is, are you right to claim certainty when the other side expresses doubts and caution? |
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May 6 2007, 05:44 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 3-October 06 Member No.: 9,529 |
That's what he was saying though. No "other side" has expressed any doubts (besides so-called "news" trying to increase reader/viewer-ship). I really wish "news" would actually check stories instead of just cut-and-pasting what a different news outlet said. There has never been a study of cell phone affect on bees (to my knowledge). The one study constantly referred to was a German study of the effects of a wireless phone signal (900MHz IIRC) on bees (they put a base station inside the bee hive) and had nothing to do with cell phones. |
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May 6 2007, 05:46 PM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
DECT is really evil.
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May 6 2007, 05:57 PM
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#22
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Okay, fair enough in that case. I don't know much about this. I'm just wary of adopting a tone of complete certainty in areas that are still very new. We're still clearing out the odd atic full of asbestos installation in the UK from time to time. We see unexpected effects of widespread use of new technology often enough to know that some things are only obvious in retrospect. It's not unreasonable for people to be wary if they choose to be, and not fair to characterise that wariness as always a quality of ignorance. |
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May 6 2007, 06:22 PM
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#23
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well there is as always a line between caution and panic...
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May 6 2007, 08:10 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
This wasn't a new issue that nobody knew about. It was well understood. The main cause of the asbestos issue in the US was the US government, which choose to operate their facilities in ways that were totally unsafe. This resulted in the safety precautions that had prevailed prior to WW2 being never brought back on line for decades. Does government protect us from hazardous products, or does it put us in harm's way? Everyone knew that this wasn't good to breath: "By the early 20th century insurance companies recognized asbestos fabrication as among the occupations most dangerous to human health, and by the 1930s-that is to say, before the outbreak of World War II-workers' compensation systems listed asbestosis as a compensable condition." The goverment choose to ignore this: "As federal judge Jack Weinstein put it in a ruling on later litigation: "The Navy, though aware of the hazards posed by asbestos dust, in its urge to build its warships as quickly as possible, did not inform workers of the dangers and neglected to make available protective precautions." Indeed, the judge noted, "The evidence produced indicates that these risks were known to Government officials at least as high as the highest Navy personnel and probably known to the President of the United States."" |
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May 6 2007, 08:55 PM
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#25
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
when its war, the law is only ink on paper...
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