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[HappyDaze]

When looking at the various Foci, it appears that a Power Focus is the equivalent to at least 20 Foci!

Effectively, it is 5 Spellcasting Foci (one for each category), 5 Summoning Foci (one for each of the 5 categories of Spirits for the user's tradition), a Banishing Foci for all types of Spirits, and a boost to any other test where Magic is rolled.

You get all of this for only twice the cost of a Spellcasting or Summoning Focus. Doesn't that seem like too good of a deal?

I'm considering removing the Power Focus from the game so that the other types of Foci have some value. Is there any good reason not to remove th Power Focus? My only other option is to make it terribly expensive (like 100,000 per rating or more) to make the other foci look somewhat attractive.

[Cheops]

I believe it has the highest bonding costs and is only available at force 2 to begin play. If you ask me the sustaining focus is the more broken of the two.

[silentmaster101]

well see i believe the power foci are more clearly seen on the astral plane as they are more powerful.

[HappyDaze]

[HappyDaze]

[Glyph]

The power focus is fine as is. It's like saying "Get rid of bioware so that cyberware can mean something again." Not every possible option in the book has to be the best one.

[HappyDaze]

[MaxHunter]

I would still make power foci more pricey, or more addictive...

mmm... where were my addiction houserules?

Cheers

Max

[Narmio]

Saying a Force 2 power focus is "better" than a Force 3 spellcasting focus is like saying a Panther Cannon is "better" than a Predator, or that a Banshee is "better" than a Westwind. Different things are better at different times, and I can think of plenty of starting mages who'd prefer three extra dice on the type of spell they cast all the time to two extra dice on everything. I can also think of plenty of starting mages who'd prefer to have that 12BP for something else.

Whenever you mathematically model something you necessarily abstract away certain parts of it. If you follow this kind of reasoning you abstract away subtleties and complexities of the game and replace character generation with a set of simultaneous equation problems.

Elitist roleplayer "doing it for fun" nonsense aside, maybe you should just change the 1-BP-per-force-point bit, rather than messing with power foci in-game? Maybe the standard karma cost, divided by two or three, depending on how many starting foci you really want?

[Jaid]

power foci cannot be used for drain resistance, iirc.

spell foci and spirit foci can.

banishing is garbage anyways, most of the time, so why should you care if it improves those tests? :P

also, you may only apply the bonus from one focus to any given pool at any time... having both a spellcasting focus and a power focus allows you to boost your spellcasting pool, and also to boost your drain resistance.

generally speaking though, the ability to boost drain resistance or spellcasting pool as needed is a very nice ability, and is ultimately the bigger limit on spellcasting and especially summoning. you don't summon/bind force 12 spirits regularly, not because you don't have enough dicepool to succeed, but because there is a very real and not nearly small enough chance to get turned into goo by the drain.

[Narmio]

You used to be able to "withhold" dice from casting the spell to apply them to drain, meaning you effectively could apply Power Focus dice to the drain test, albeit indirectly. I don't have my books with me, am I just remembering something from SR3?

[Jack Kain]

Where does having a power foci stop you from using regular foci at the same time?
Now sure at the start a power foci is a good deal over other foci.

But you might hold onto the rating 3 foci of another type long after you've gotten a power focui above rating 2.


Case in point, Mage A has power foci rating 2 from char gen. Which he will dump as soon as he gets power foci above 2.


Mage B has spellcasting foci rating 3 for the healing spell. To counter the various penalties for healing outdoors and heavily cyberware characters.

While it it is possible Mage B will seek out a higher rating spellcasting foci for his healing magic. Its more likely he will seek out a power foci, however after getting it his spellcasting foci is still useful.
While mage A can only sell his old foci for around 25% its value.

You see what I'm saying

[HappyDaze]

[Jaid]

frankly, if you're considering buying and binding one focus during chargen, and another after, and one of those two is a power focus... do the power focus at chargen. the simple fact that it's 2 BP in chargen, and a ton of karma outside of chargen, should be enough to make the decision fairly obvious, imo.

[knasser]

So Power Foci are good and players want to buy them. I'm not getting the problem here. Some options are better than others.

And other posters have given examples of why characters might want to get a different focus, so that's fine. They will exist.

[Degausser]

I'd like to throw in my two cents about this whooooole shpiel.

This is a game.

Any GM worth his salt is going to adapt to the players. So, if a starting mage has only five dice for casting spells, they aren't going to go up agianst many magical threats. If a player throws 32 dice for spellcasting, the GM is going to adapt and send them up against an Elven ghost team with reflecting and a bunch of other stuff. Remember, the GM doesn't have to play by the rules, let alone the character creation rules. If you abuse power foci, so can he.

But, really, when you get down to it, I'd much trather have a lvl 3 sustaining focus (sustaining Increased Reflexes) than a lvl 2 power focus (Mage with street sam's initiative without penalties to my dice pool? count me in!) but I'm sure there are some mages who wouldn't. It all depends on what you are going for.

Lastly, there is something to be said for higher-lvl foci (even if they are "less usefull") versus lower level. They are more powerful, and thus harder to damage. If I see a mage going bazonkers, I'm gonna astrally percieve, see what kinda foci he has, and blast the bejesus out of them. And a lvl 3 spell foci is harder to damage than a lvl 2 power foci.


If you are STILL unsure, then use this rule (if it's not already a rule. Some of the Foci rules make my head spin.)
Spell foci can increase the maximum number of hits, whereas Power foci cannot.

This way a power focus cannot make you hit any harder, just a better chance of hitting as hard as you can. A spell focus can make you hit harder.

[Grinder]

[Degausser]

[mfb]

i don't think power foci are too useful because i almost never see anyone complaining about them. it's just raw power, after all, which is easy enough for most GMs to deal with. what i see people complaining about, when they compain, are sustaining foci, because with a sustaining focus, you can pull some really clever tricks that many GMs will have a hard time dealing with.

[HappyDaze]

[toturi]

In order to make full use of this versatility, the PC has to diversify his spell list. In a game that rewards specialisation, the player has to weigh the versatility of the power focus versus the cost efficiency of specialisation.

[HappyDaze]

[toturi]

Most PCs I've seen have 2-3 categories of spells, but with 1 spell category having the majority of the spells. Specialise in 1 spell category and splash 1-2 spells for utility.

[HappyDaze]

I'm probably going to take the following steps:
1) Triple the cost of the Power Foci to rating x 75,000 :nuyen:.
2) Increase the bonding cost by +50% to rating x 12 Karma.
3) I will not allow Foci to be bound with BPS, only with Karma. I will be giving starting characters an allocation of Karma in addition to their BPs.

This should keep the Power Focus viable while increasing the proportionate appeal fo the other Foci types.

[Narmio]