 SR4 GM Boggles o.O, Please roll GM + Confusion. |
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  May 21 2007, 05:13 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 20-May 07 Member No.: 11,702  |
It looks as though my posting privileges have been approved; this makes me happy. I've been GM'ing an SR4 game on AIM private rooms (because they have the capability to roll dice, but don't be shy about speaking up if you know a better method), but after reading the BBB cover to cover a few times over, and certain sections of the other books, I am a bit puzzled on few subjects.
MAGIC Street Magic | Adept Ability | Elemental Strike | Cost 0.5. This adds an elemental effect to the adepts unarmed strikes. Is it just me or is this power ridiculously powerful? The abilities listed have the power to reduce armor by half if not remove it completely, not to mention the elemental effects can catch people on fire, blind them, paralyze them, and various other things. I don't understand how this costs the same as a single point of mystical armor. BBB | Weapon Foci Can adepts use/create Foci? COMBAT There seems to be a -3 melee attack penalty of you are being fired at via ranged combat while in melee combat, but there's no penalty to the gunman for firing at a target who is engaged with a friendly target in melee combat. Um... what? MATRIX | RIGGER If a technomancer or other hacker wants to take control of a drone that is controlled by a rigger, how is this handled? I have read that the hacker can lift the matrix ID of the rigger and use it to spoof commands to the drone, but can the hacker actually hack the drone "node", and "jump" into it himself or is the drone somehow hardwired to the drone modification blackbox and the original rigger? If a hacker wants to hack into a car and use it to run someone over, how would this be handled? I was a bit at a loss when my group rigger wanted to do this, so I told him he'd have to get a drone close enough to the car to compensate for a low signal, bounce his matrix link off of that drone to the car's pilot computer, make a successful hacking test, and then use his command program + vehicle skill to run the fellow over. It felt a little off, but I'm having trouble finding a better method to do this. Should the hacker only be able to issue commands to the vehicle and then use the vehicle's pilot rating for the attack test? There seem to be painfully few examples in the BBB on how Rigging and manipulating vehicles works. SETTING What happened to the Matchstick? What happened to the colorful terms such as Drek, Slot-Off, Chummer, etc? :( |
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May 21 2007, 05:24 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Adepts have always been able to use weapon foci. I can't remember if adepts could create them in SR3, but they can in SR4. It's a bit easier to makes them now then in SR3 iirc - and you can use mundane base items (like ceramic knives), but still a pain.
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May 21 2007, 05:39 AM
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#3
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
There are some drawbacks. It's hard to be subtle, or even not messy. Also, it's automatically a signature for the adept in question, making it easier to recognize the adept in the future.
Yep. Also yep.
It's true. I usually use the cover rules.
There are basically two options, both take a while. The first is to find the rigger's Matrix ID and spoof the drone. The second is to actually hack the drone directly.
I'm pretty sure that in order to use Command on a device, one must first be logged into it (using the Log In action), and that means hacking in first. But then, yeah, it'd be Command + Skill to control the device remotely, or Pilot + autosoft if the hacker just sends instructions to the device's Pilot. There's an audio demo that describes a hacker breaking into an office node and taking over its functions, which is the same procedure as I would have a hacker perform for taking over a vehicle.
Beats me.
Fragged if I know, omae. |
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May 21 2007, 05:42 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 20-May 07 Member No.: 11,702 |
Any chance on getting an example for the Rigger problems? :)
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May 21 2007, 05:44 AM
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#5
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I just edited my post above to include the audio demo I did with a couple of my players. Start there, and if you still have questions, let me know.
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May 21 2007, 05:47 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Mystic Armor is always on.
Elemental strike lasts only for a number of combat turns equal to your magic before it must be activated again. Many of the powers can be rendered mute for example. Smoke for example can be rendered mute by an internal air tank for 750 :nuyen: Inhalation vector toxins don't work if you don't breathe. Sound has various defenses. Hell a selective sound filter should do wonders. The elemental strike must be taken for each element individually. When you look at the damage and reach advantages of many melee weapons unarmed needs some advantages. My own character has more armor to resist fire, cold and electricity then he does a regular fist. Rating 6 armor modifications are nice. |
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May 21 2007, 06:01 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 20-May 07 Member No.: 11,702 |
(insert laugh here) Listening to that was like Christmas morning. I wish I could explain how long it's been since I got to play an in person PnP game, and how much I miss it, but we'll skip to the questions. FINDING THE NODE I'm a little confused by this when considering the wireless matrix. If a hacker is standing in mutual coverage signal range of a vehicle, for example, does he need to roll in order to find that vehicle node in the matrix? What kind of firewall and system would a normal passenger vehicle have? Would such a vehicle have a factory installed IC protecting it? Assuming the hacker finds it, and hacks it to obtain user or maintenance level access, what skills would that hacker use to control it via AR? VR? RIGGERS FIGHTING OVER A DRONE How might you handle that one? appreciate the input! Jagger |
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May 21 2007, 06:12 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 380 Joined: 19-May 07 Member No.: 11,698 |
Just FYI, for all of you not in the know, either the Shadowrunn writers did a GREAT job at Translating Japanese, or a HORRIBLE job. omae (oh-ma-eh)is an informal way to say "You" in Japanese. Very informal. So, you CAN say it to your close friends if you are that comfortable with them, but you can also say it to someone you want to piss off by being very rude and informal to someone who should deserve better. Call Mr. J (from Shaiwaise) Omae and he'd take it very offensivly, probably shoot you on site. so ka (technically, it should be "sou ka") is actually a question in Japanese (denoted by the 'ka' at the end, which ends all question sentances in Japanese) DOES NOT mean "I understand" If you want to say that In Japanese, say "Wakata" or (slightly more politely) "Wakarimashita" Sou Ka more closely translates to "is that so?" Example: A)"Didja hear? Tryxx managed to hack Aztech last night!" B)"Sou Ka?" A)"Yeah man, that chummer's in deep drek now!" Yeah, so either the writers were doing a great spoof on how words get seriously messed up across language borders, OOOOR they got their wires crossed when writing this. |
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May 21 2007, 06:17 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 20-May 07 Member No.: 11,702 |
The omae kind of made sense to me. I just wrote it off as saying "bitch" or maybe "buddy..." in a sarcastic fashion, which functions the same way on the east coast USA, but the "so ka" caught me eye as being a little weird. I would have probably changed that to "sou ne?" which would be a little more like saying "I know, right?" Just my take on that one. |
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May 21 2007, 06:33 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 380 Joined: 19-May 07 Member No.: 11,698 |
Maybe we should start a new thread with a bunch of slang that people can submit. We could post SR3 slang, useful slang from Japanese, and whatever other slag from other languages that people know. (Kinda similar to how we use chica from spanish to say "girl" (I'm being polite here) in modern day times.)
Anyone up for that? |
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May 21 2007, 08:20 AM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Also note that Elemental Strike has Killing Hands as a pre-req, meaning its slightly less cheap considering you have to buy at least a level in that power first. |
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May 21 2007, 08:40 AM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No levels for Killing Hands in SR4, though - additional damage comes only from Critical Strike.
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May 21 2007, 12:01 PM
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#13
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Not automatically. Devices can run in four modes when it comes to wireless networking: Active, Passive, Hidden, and Off. Active allows any other device to connect; vending machines and mall infobooths would be Active nodes. Passive means the node is visible in AR or the Matrix, but refuses connections unless the connection is from a permitted user that is on the device's permit list. In Hidden mode, the device is not immediately visible on the Matrix or in AR, and also refuses connections; it's kinda like a WAP that doesn't advertise. Off is, well, off: undetectable and unable to take connections. A Matrix user can find a Hidden node that she knows is there (as in the audio example, where the hacker could see the office and knew it had a node, but couldn't see it) with a Scan + Electronic Warfare (4) Test. Alternatively, she can make a survey of all Hidden nodes in an area using a Scan + Electronic Warfare (15+, 1 Combat Turn) Test. Normally you see the one-shot test in combat as the first step for a hacker to make a quick run against a street sam's cyberware or a drone or vehicle.
I just use the Pilot rating listed with the vehicle as a Device Rating, which covers all of its Matrix Attributes. The table on p. 214 of your hymnal states that your average vehicle or drone is going to have a Device Rating of 3.
Some might. Kinda like how some modern vehicles come with a security system. But I wouldn't expect it; all of the IC-type programs are restricted and require a permit to own. So the default answer is "no," although I can see a rigger loading his devices with it. The balancing factor is that the Pilot and autosofts also count as running programs, and as such might reduce the device's effective Response.
The triumphant hacker has a few options:
Of course, many single-use devices only have Admin access (p. 216), and for my money, vehicles and drones fall into this category.
I'm going to use the term "hacker" for the attacker and "rigger" for the owner of the drone, even though the two probably have similar skill sets and equipment. Once the hacker gains control over the drone, the rigger is not automatically blocked out. If the hacker gains control by spoofing the rigger's commands, the rigger still has access to the drone and can still send it commands. In this case, the drone would probably start doing all sorts of weird things as it attempts to reconcile and follow this new and bizarre stream of commands. If the commands are mutually exclusive, the winner would probably be the one that sent the most recent command. If the hacker actually hacked the drone, then after a few Edit actions by said hacker (altering the drone's list of legitimate users), the rigger may find that he is locked out of his own drone and now must hack back in. Of course, a rigger may log into his drone's node to engage the hacker in cybercombat, in which case they'll literally fight over the drone. |
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May 21 2007, 12:42 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 12-December 06 From: Salish-Shidhe territory, near Seattle Member No.: 10,346 |
I'd rule as a game master that if a car was say, on the side of the street parked for the night, that it would be un-hackable as it's system node is switched to the 'off' position. if you had a firefight in an intersection, however, then sure, the hacker could conceivably hack into the system of a vehicle at the stoplight and wing it at a badguy.
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May 21 2007, 12:46 PM
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#15
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
not quite, imo... active: shouting out that one is there. may still require some kind of password or similar to get access. and the functions one have available is dependant on said access. so maybe the vending machine would have a guest/user access without a password, and would allow only the purchase of whatever products its designed to vend. superuser/security/admin may give access to stuff like test routines that would eject a item from a selected bin (or maybe ones from every bin) and so on. those may require the person logging in to have a hardware dongle (passkey) connected to his comlink (page 215) or similar. passive: does not shout that its there, but will respond if anyone tries to connect to it. other then that, see active. hidden: as passive, but will only respond to connections matching a list. |
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May 21 2007, 06:30 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-January 03 Member No.: 3,840 |
Actually, in romaji it would be 'soo ka' or 'so ka', because generally when Japanese is transcribed to roman letters they take out double consonants. Which is why you should spend as much time as possible learning kana, so you don't miss out on important linguistic stuff that doesn't make it through the transcribing process. And the easiest and least troublesome way to say that you understand something is just 'hai', which is a general Japanese positive term that can mean anything from 'yes' to 'I got it." ã??れをæŒ?ã?£ã?¦ã?„ã?¾ã?™ã?‹ï¼Ÿ Okay I'm done. Foreign language major ><. *stops waving member around* |
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May 21 2007, 07:34 PM
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#17
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I disagree. I'm in a bit of a rush, so rather than make an argument here, I'm just going to ask that you read p. 211 and then kindly comment. Please accept my apologies. |
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May 21 2007, 10:02 PM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 20-May 07 Member No.: 11,702 |
Excellent information. That's going along the lines of what I was beginning to suspect, but now I feel pretty confident about it. :)
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