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> sustained and quickened spells, cast through them on magician?
Kazum
post May 23 2007, 10:57 PM
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I know it was possible in SR3, but i don't find any rules in SR4: Can you as a magician while astrally projecting cast a spell to a non-projecting/perceiving mage, who has a spell sustained or a focus activated?

and: what if the mage has this spell not sustained on himself, but on another char, can you attack that char too?

thx
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Lagomorph
post May 23 2007, 11:05 PM
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I believe that they took that out of the game in SR4.
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Kazum
post May 23 2007, 11:06 PM
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are you sure???
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Demerzel
post May 24 2007, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Kazum)
are you sure???

QUOTE (SR4 p.173)
A magician in the physical world can only cast spells on targets that are in the physical world. Similarly, a magician in astral space can only cast spells on targets that have an astral form (though the auras of things in the physical world can be seen, auras alone cannot be targeted). An astrally perceiving (or otherwise dual natured) magician can cast spells on a target in either the physical world or in astral space.


Hope that helps.
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Demerzel
post May 24 2007, 12:03 AM
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Oh, you mean grounding... There is no grounding, I'm sure. You can target a focus and destroy it, but AoE spells won't affect purely physical targets nearby.

Furthermore, spells do not have an astral form, they have an aura, but they cannot be targeted with spells or astral combat.
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Kazum
post May 24 2007, 09:21 AM
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But i am right, when i believe, that there was grounding in previous editions?

Why did they drop this.... makes magicians somewhat more powerful.
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Synner
post May 24 2007, 10:35 AM
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Grounding was only an option in First and Second edition, it was dropped in Third Edition (and now Fourth) because of the issues it creates regarding the "permeability" of the astral/physical planes.

Mechanically it doesn't make magicians themselves any less of a viable target since you can nail an astrally percieving/projecting magician or their foci with a mana spell. What it does stop is the remaining (non-magical) team mates from unexpectedly becoming collateral damage when their mage got ambushed and a grounded AoE Physical spell splashed over. Grounding also made it almost impossible to use low force foci because they just became sitting targets for any astrally projecting security mage that happened to spot them.

Some people liked the fact that grounding hung over everyone's heads and made foci and astral projection/perception a constant threat. Others resented getting nuked because the mage did something stupid or didn't take enough precautions and the gamemaster miscalculated how much damage that Fireball would do. Combined with the issues grounding raised regarding the way the astral/physical interface worked it was decided that it should be dropped.

That being said several people have suggested reintroducing grounding as a metamagic technique. We considered this during the development of Street Magic, but decided against for many of the reasons detailed above.
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Kazum
post May 24 2007, 10:43 AM
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Well i think it makes them less of a target, because a non-perceiving/projecting Magician, which is sustaining a spell or having a focus "online" could be targetet through the spell or the focus and get hit my a manabolt. I always believed, that this was also in 3rd ed.

The AoE-Spell-Grounding was very powerful, is understand that, and i did never use that, but "grounding only to the sustaining magigcian" was always an option, wasn't it? and now it is impossible? Thats okay, but i have to get used to it.
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Synner
post May 24 2007, 10:56 AM
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Grounding especifically refers to the act of casting a Physical spell through a dual-natured/astrally active target and having its effects manifest on the Physical plane. Casting a Mana spell from the astral against any dual-natured/astrally active target has always been and continues to be an option—but it only affects that target (be it a magician, a foci, a percieving adept or a dual natured critter) and there is no splash over. This means you can target foci, magicians, Awakened critters, spirits, etc as long as they are active on the astral plane in some form.

Grounding a Physical spell from the astral through Quickened, Sustained or active spells has never been an option (there is no physical component to ground out through). Grounding a spell through a sustaining focus/spell lock was only possible in Second edition (and dropped when FASA went to Third edition) and only when these were active. Grounding through an astrally percieving/projecting magician or spirit was only possible in Second edition (and also dropped in Third edition).

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Kazum
post May 24 2007, 10:58 AM
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okay... but what is with a magician who has a sustained spell or focus online but is not on the astral plane? can i target him through the sustained spell?
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Synner
post May 24 2007, 11:04 AM
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Only a focus (which is astrally active) can be targeted and affected - and then only with a mana spell. There is no way of affecting the magician indirectly in this manner. To affect him directly he must be active on the astral plane. Sustained spells have neved been valid targets in any edition.

Even in Second edition the best you could do was lob an AoE Physical spell at a foci (a sustaining foci or spell lock as they were known then) and have the splash over hit the magician (single target spells would still only affected the foci). Hitting a foci with a manabolt would not cascade into the magician.

I believe you may also be confusing grounding/astral targeting with the Ritual Sorcery/Astral Tracking option of using a magician's (assumed stolen) foci as a material link/pipeline to hit him with a spell.
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Kazum
post May 24 2007, 11:21 AM
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Well thanks for the fast help. my mage-player will be glad to hear that.
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