Missile Mastery and Grenades - Dumpshock Forums

Missile Mastery and Grenades, Pegging a guy with a grenade

IvanTank View Member Profile	May 24 2007, 07:38 PM Post #26
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866	the scary thing is that a throwing adept can throw a bullet for more damage than shooting it.

Leehouse

May 24 2007, 09:14 PM

Post #27

Target

Group: Members
Posts: 80
Joined: 4-January 07
Member No.: 10,539

QUOTE (IvanTank)

the scary thing is that a throwing adept can throw a bullet for more damage than shooting it.

That, as well as a number of other things, is why I consider most throwing adepts horrid. Good story for why can mitigate but trolls with high strength and high power throw, and missle mastery make my brain hurt.

mfb View Member Profile	May 24 2007, 09:22 PM Post #28
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	yeah, but the range is crap and the rate of fire is crap. you could do the same thing a lot cheaper, build-wise, with an SMG on full-auto and a silence spell.

Leehouse View Member Profile	May 24 2007, 09:39 PM Post #29
Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 4-January 07 Member No.: 10,539	With power throw 5 and strength 1 you can throw a knife further than a light pistol can fire a bullet so a troll with strength of 5 and power throw 5 can throw it further. Rate of fire is 2 per IP, until you have to use a simple action to ready more. Granted I haven't play tested it, because the majority of my group find it a bit odd as well, so this is all the simple math as I see it.

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	May 24 2007, 10:13 PM Post #30
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	...then you add the Quick Draw power (which Tomoe has) & you become the living semi automatic.

mfb View Member Profile	May 24 2007, 10:29 PM Post #31
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	haha, wow. i think i'd tone that range down a bit, personally. not to mention the rate of fire--throwing an object is a big, slow motion.

Moon-Hawk

May 25 2007, 02:16 PM

Post #32

Genuine Artificial Intelligence

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715

QUOTE (Wasabi)

QUOTE (Demerzel @ May 23 2007, 08:40 PM)

I don't think there is a contact detination mode.

QUOTE (SR4 p.313)

Grenades are small, self-contained explosive packages. They may come with a built-in timer to detonate after a pre-set amount of time (usually 5 seconds), a motion-sensor set to detonate on impact, or a wireless link set to detonate upon remote command.

If you mean to throw the type of grenade used in a launcher then you'd need some special equipment to arm them, and probably will just end up blowing your hand off anyway.

If a player were to use a grenade in this fashion I would let them hit the target and do the missile mastery damage, then roll for scatter and they have no control over reducing scatter. Their throw was intended to hit for force and damage, not stay there, so you hit great job, it bounces off his face and . . . roll the bones.

Brilliant!

This is similar to how I've handled it.
The only difference is, I let them divide their hits into two piles before it was resisted. One was for the missile mastery attack, and those hits counted for dodge, damage, etc. and the other pile was for scatter reduction.
This character was more interested in doing the grenade damage, but just thought it would be funny to soften him up with the grenade first.
It might not've been the best solution, but it only came up one time, so it worked well.

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 02:45 PM Post #33
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	...which is why you find some way to make it stick to your target (Kleen Tac? just don't glitch :eek: ).

Cheops

May 25 2007, 04:36 PM

Post #34

Shooting Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,512
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 392

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

heh, interesting concept. first knock him out, then blow him up :D

hell, i would love to see a missile mastery adept based around the use of baseballs ;)

There was a Major League pitcher who served as a Marine in WW2. He died at Tarawa Atoll because when his landing craft was approaching the beach the Japanese starting throwing grenades into it. He fielded them and pitched them back to the Japanese like he was playing short stop. He finally died when the 6th one went off in his hand and blew off his arm.

And that's just a highly skilled mundane. I shudder to think what an Adept with Improved Throwing, Baseball (Fielding) Knowledge skill, and some funky adept powers could do.

hobgoblin

May 25 2007, 04:53 PM

Post #35

panda!

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242

QUOTE (Cheops @ May 25 2007, 05:36 PM)

QUOTE (hobgoblin @ May 24 2007, 01:12 AM)

heh, interesting concept. first knock him out, then blow him up :D

hell, i would love to see a missile mastery adept based around the use of baseballs ;)

There was a Major League pitcher who served as a Marine in WW2. He died at Tarawa Atoll because when his landing craft was approaching the beach the Japanese starting throwing grenades into it. He fielded them and pitched them back to the Japanese like he was playing short stop. He finally died when the 6th one went off in his hand and blew off his arm.

And that's just a highly skilled mundane. I shudder to think what an Adept with Improved Throwing, Baseball (Fielding) Knowledge skill, and some funky adept powers could do.

and maybe a proper catchers glove?

or how about someone with a bat?

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 05:55 PM Post #36
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	...I've considered having Tomoe use her bat to knock grenades back towards the thrower. Don't know though if the severity of the hit wouldn't set the things off. Now the fielding Angle, that would work if you had an action before the thrower's next IP. I would also say you would need the Quick draw power to ready & throw it back in the same pass you caught it. Otherwise like the fellow Cheops mentioned (tried to track down his name), you have the thing go off in your hand.

hyzmarca View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 06:02 PM Post #37
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456	If the grenade is armed and in your hand we can assume that it is already readied. This is where Missile Parry and reflex enhancements come in handy.

Arz

May 25 2007, 06:10 PM

Post #38

Moving Target

Group: Members
Posts: 188
Joined: 16-June 03
From: Da Burgh, PA
Member No.: 4,751

QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

...I've considered having Tomoe use her bat to knock grenades back towards the thrower. Don't know though if the severity of the hit wouldn't set the things off.

Now the fielding Angle, that would work if you had an action before the thrower's next IP. I would also say you would need the Quick draw power to ready & throw it back in the same pass you caught it. Otherwise like the fellow Cheops mentioned (tried to track down his name), you have the thing go off in your hand.

I had similar thoughts with my SR3 adept, Shortstop. Eventually decided to get missile parry geased to his antique Giants mitt. Also linked a number of things to his homeground, the baseball diamond.

In SR4 it would be great to line your glove up with a slew of jammers to deaden wireless signals of things you caught.

WearzManySkins View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 06:12 PM Post #39
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440	IIRC there is/was a grenade referred to or called "Baseball" grenade. It was/is sphere with the lever arming mechanism on top. The airfoil grenades would be harder to hit back, their airfoil shape.

mfb View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 06:51 PM Post #40
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	sounds like the M-67, which is the standard grenade used by the US military today.

WearzManySkins View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 07:04 PM Post #41
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440	Yes that is the one I recall. Still using it after all these years..... I recall speaking with some VN vets who tried replacing the comp B with other explosives like C 4. But then they modified Claymores too, replaced the sheet containing the ball bearings with chains and other nice things.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 07:04 PM Post #42
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	funny how that page talk about it being good that a average soldier can throw it 40 meters given that the "casualty producing radius" (nice way to say wounded or killed) is 15 meters. but then it talks about shrapnel being able to go as far as 230 meters. how the hell does that match? ballistic trajectory or something? sounds to me like while it can reliably wound or kill out to 15 meters, it can by value of freak accidents hit stuff much longer of. hell, didnt someone get shot by a pistol from over a kilometer away at one time?

hyzmarca View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 07:13 PM Post #43
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456	Assuming uniform shrapnel distribution, shrapnel density and, thus, wound probability, obeys the inverse-square law. It could wound someone a 230 meters but it probably won't because at that range there is enough space between the shrapnel pieces to fit a modest-sized home. The probability of someone standing between the shrapnel at that range is far greater than the probability of someone being in the flight path of a piece of shrapnel at that range.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 07:17 PM Post #44
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	so if one manage to hit, its a extreme version of bad karma? ;)

Cheops

May 25 2007, 07:50 PM

Post #45

Shooting Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,512
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 392

QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

Otherwise like the fellow Cheops mentioned (tried to track down his name), you have the thing go off in your hand.

Sorry, double checked the guy and got some facts slightly off. His name was Corporal John Joseph Spillane and he must have been a minor league player. Here's the quote from World War II, Time Life Books, "Island Fighting," p 111.

QUOTE

One of the first-wave amtraks that made it all the way to shore was dubbed "The Old Lady." Among the Marines aboard was Corporal John Joseph Spillane, a baseball player whose throwing arm and fielding ability had already attracted the attention of two major-league teams. As The Old Lady rumbled up to the sea wall, the Japanese began lobbing hand grenades into her. Spillane picked the first one off the deck like a hot grounder and threw it back. He caught the second in mid-air and tossed it overboard. His fellow Marines watched, horrified but fascinated, as Spillane fielded the third, the fourth and the fifth grenade and pegged them back to the Japanese. Screams were heard and a machine gun on the sea wall stopped firing. Then came a sixth grenade. The Japanese Marine who had thrown it had delayed a few seconds, and it exploded in Spillane's right hand. The 20 riflemen whose lives he had saved vaulted over the sides of The Old Lady and dashed to the sea wall. Spillane could not go with them. His pitching hand was in shreds; a surgeon on a transport later amputated it.

WhiskeyMac View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 08:24 PM Post #46
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789	Wow, he blew his career but he saved 20 guys. (Pun intended :))

hyzmarca

May 25 2007, 08:30 PM

Post #47

Midnight Toker

Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 4-July 04
From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop
Member No.: 6,456

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

so if one manage to hit, its a extreme version of bad karma? ;)

Extreme indeed. The chance of being wounded at 230 meters is x/52900 where x is the chance of being wounded at 1 meter. It is better odds than winning the lottery by a long shot, but 52,900 is a pretty big number.

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	May 25 2007, 09:01 PM Post #48
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	...did a little more research on Mr. Spillane. He was a Minor League prospect for the St Louis Cardinals. He fielded two gernades on the fly & threw them back According to the official casualty report from the Tarawa assault he was listed as WIA (not KIA). Now there is a Cy Young candidate.

Cheops

May 25 2007, 09:35 PM

Post #49

Shooting Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,512
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 392

QUOTE (WhiskeyMac)

Wow, he blew his career but he saved 20 guys. (Pun intended :))

I'd say that's a pretty good trade-off.

Glyph

May 26 2007, 01:24 AM

Post #50

Great Dragon

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449

QUOTE (Demerzel)

I don't think there is a contact detination mode.

QUOTE (SR4 p.313)

Grenades are small, self-contained explosive packages. They may come with a built-in timer to detonate after a pre-set amount of time (usually 5 seconds), a motion-sensor set to detonate on impact, or a wireless link set to detonate upon remote command.

If you mean to throw the type of grenade used in a launcher then you'd need some special equipment to arm them, and probably will just end up blowing your hand off anyway.

If a player were to use a grenade in this fashion I would let them hit the target and do the missile mastery damage, then roll for scatter and they have no control over reducing scatter. Their throw was intended to hit for force and damage, not stay there, so you hit great job, it bounces off his face and . . . roll the bones.

I think Demerzel's solution is the best, and I would add that you couldn't get the throwing damage if you set the grenade to explode on impact, since I take that to mean that it goes off the instant it touches the target.

Doing otherwise lets the adept essentially get two attacks for one (which he could actually still do, if the scatter roll is low), and this is a system that doesn't even let characters do normal punching damage when using a shock glove.

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »