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> Tachikoma - Can they be built!?, -Does Rigger 3 have the technology?
Tiralee
post May 28 2007, 07:46 PM
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Apart from rabid fanboys (Yes, I know, myself included) wanting to introduce almost all of Shirow's Mecha designs, I think a self-contained armoured vehicle with enchanced movement would be fantastic for urban warfare.

We already have the Steel lynx - AKA "Mr-Indoor-Death-Machine-for-the-starting-rigger", but could something similar be scaled up to fit a human-sized operator?

Bluntly, designing my own rocket car never got too appealing after trying my hand at an "Airwolf" Chopper via Rigger 3. After the vomit had cleared, I threw my insane scribbles away and hoped the madness would not strike again.

But knowing how many "Lookit ma piston-engin mach 1 rokkit kar!" mad scientist designers out there, has someone already had a crack at this?

Yes - the munchkin-sheath tech is possible (especially if it's dykoted) but webbing dispensers I'll leave to college kids bitten by radioactive spiders. And no harpoons.


Anyone?

-:)

-Tir.

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Kagetenshi
post May 28 2007, 07:57 PM
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The problem with building Tachikoma is… well, main problem is that I will stab you in the face, for reasons that will become clear later. That said, the big problem is movement—Shadowrun doesn't really have any way to handle mixed-mode movement, so you can make one that walks around but not one that can deploy its wheels for some higher-speed activity. The wirework can be done pretty easily with Mini-turrets with harpoon guns and winches, you already know the path to the camo, all that's needed from there is a review of the rules for mechanical legs jumping.

~J, fuchikoma fan fo' life
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mfb
post May 28 2007, 09:29 PM
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the mixed-mode movement thing is easy. you just treat the walker's legs like cyberlegs, and install retractable skates.

and tachikoma rock. fuchikoma gots no game.
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Tiralee
post May 29 2007, 10:22 AM
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Yes, the Tachikoma doth rock hardeth:)

Some points -
1: Was looking for someone's pre-made fanservice
2: Lose the wire work. Install auto gerenade launcher with selectable ammo and a decent bin size.
3: Thinking more of the Tachikoma as a "rigger in drone" concept. (With a launch rack/bay, perhaps? Heh, drop off a steel lynx and then let big brother have a go)
4: Uh. The damn polymer sheath. Maybe. If the guys want it, they can fork out the $$$ to get it repaired from bullets, rockets, acid rain, etc...
5: Good call with the cyberlegs with cyberskates - you basically scale them up to suit the size, correct? (Say walk-speed multiplyer =3, Chicken-walker (kid Stealth) wheeled (cyberskate) multiplyer = 5, with the appropriate drive modifer tests and expensive custom software).
6: Jumping - no problem, just rule it in as a movement-action that requires certain drive tests (which get scary modifiers on unstable ground, etc)
7: Smart materials - required, but no drive test modifiers (Takes away some insane modifier ideas)
8: Grippers/hands/waldos - all in canon.
9: MMG or HMG? Stuff it, vehicle laser!

All this being said, my concept of the Tachikoma is that it's an information-warfare base unit designed for urban/semi rural use. Good for sneaking and spying hard targets, protecting the payload (the operator and the assorted drones/spy devices for which the Tachikoma could act as the server dump) and either discouraging the opposition (anything from a sticky grenade to AV rounds) or getting the operator the hell out fast and safely.

-Catcha

-Tir

(Stab in face, why?!)

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post May 29 2007, 01:37 PM
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I just had a quick look at Fuchikoma on wikipedia - I gather they're similar to tachikomas. After seeing a spoiler for 2nd Gig there, which I'm currently in the middle of, I shall research no further.

As for designing one, the first step would be to produce stats for the final product. You can then set about making it work with R3 if you're so inclined.

PS What's the polymer sheath?
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Kagetenshi
post May 29 2007, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (Link)
I just had a quick look at Fuchikoma on wikipedia - I gather they're similar to tachikomas. After seeing a spoiler for 2nd Gig there, which I'm currently in the middle of, I shall research no further.

They have something to do with 2nd Gig, but that isn't the Tru7h. For the Tru7h, read the original manga.

As for the weapon, they should probably have 2x LMG or assault rifle, with an HMG available for their modular weapons pod.

~J
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Moon-Hawk
post May 29 2007, 04:25 PM
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I did this once. Not much chance of me digging up the stats. I think I did it by taking the biggest walker drone that I could find and installing a pilot seat in it with no manual controls and all legroom removed to save space.
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Kagetenshi
post May 29 2007, 04:30 PM
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I made this once:

Chassis: Large Walker (Markup 1.00) (425 DPV)

Power Plant: Methane

Starting Cargo: 4

Starting Load: 120

Max Speed: 57

Max Econ: 1 Km/bar

DPV: 3,040+102

Final Cost: ¥314,200

Hand. 2/2, Speed 50 , Body 3, Armor 5, Sig 5, Auto , Pilot 3, Sensor 6, Cargo 0, Load 162, Seating 1, Entry c, Fuel (240 bars), Econ 1 Km/bar

Rigger Adaptation, Remote-Control Interface, Removed Manual Controls, Smart Materials, Drive-By-Wire 3, Roll Bars, Mechanical Arms (2, Strength 9), Bucket Seat (armored, 2 points), Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Winches (4), Internal Hardpoint (RPK HMG, 10S, 480 rounds), Gunnery Recoil Adjusters 9, Radio, Remote-Control Deck, Gas Enviroseal, Water Enviroseal, Engine Seal, Life Support (10 man-hours), APPS, ECM 1, ECCM 1, Robot Pilot 3, Robotic Reflexes 3, CMC 3

+1 to power of Crash damage against occupant

A Renraku security vehicle designed for effective response in the tight quarters of an office building, this lethal defender of the peace is a standard, though seldom-seen, Renraku design.

but it's only loosely inspired by the 何?chikoma.

~J
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mfb
post May 29 2007, 06:08 PM
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fuchikoma are basically tougher, better-armed tachikoma that don't have the true AI that made tachikoma so amusing. unless you put a rating-5 or higher robot into your design, you'd probably be better off thinking of any GitS-inspired SR walker as a fuchikoma instead of a tachikoma.

i suppose if i watched more anime, the high-voiced cutsey robot thing might annoy me instead of making me laugh, but most anime is too... japanse for me (which is one reason why i like SAC better than the manga, or especially the movies).
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Kagetenshi
post May 29 2007, 07:24 PM
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Um? You did read the manga, right? All of the AI stuff came directly from the fuchikoma. Personality-wise, the tachikoma are the direct translation of the manga fuchikoma.

~J
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mfb
post May 29 2007, 08:13 PM
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really? it's been a long-ass time. i watched the movie, read the first manga, and then promptly wiped them both from memory when i watched the first ep of SAC. i grabbed the second manga and read through it some time later, haven't had time to sit down and dissect it. second movie... eh. fun, but they shoulda focused more on the actual social implications and less on having two guys try to out-quote each other. (SAC is definitely skimping on the hot lesbot sex, though...)

edit: haha, now i remember. they annoyed the hell out of me, in the manga. not sure why i like them so much in SAC. i think it's the expressiveness of the animation.
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Kagetenshi
post May 29 2007, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (mfb)
really? it's been a long-ass time. i watched the movie, read the first manga, and then promptly wiped them both from memory when i watched the first ep of SAC.

Philistine.

QUOTE
i grabbed the second manga and read through it some time later, haven't had time to sit down and dissect it.

The problem with the second manga was… I think I've said it before on this board, but it was like watching a grandmaster-level chess game with no knowledge of the rules of chess. It was even worse, though—unlike chess, the rules for what was happening don't even exist except possibly in fragments in Shirow Masamune's brain. We were told, or had it hinted to us, that mistakes or brilliant moves were being made, but no way existed to actually see that.

~J
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PBTHHHHT
post May 30 2007, 05:19 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Link @ May 29 2007, 08:37 AM)
I just had a quick look at Fuchikoma on wikipedia - I gather they're similar to  tachikomas. After seeing a spoiler for 2nd Gig there, which I'm currently in the middle of, I shall research no further.

They have something to do with 2nd Gig, but that isn't the Tru7h. For the Tru7h, read the original manga.

As for the weapon, they should probably have 2x LMG or assault rifle, with an HMG available for their modular weapons pod.

~J

Dont' forget the grenade launcher of theirs in the errr... 'nose'.
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mfb
post May 30 2007, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The problem with the second manga was… I think I've said it before on this board, but it was like watching a grandmaster-level chess game with no knowledge of the rules of chess. It was even worse, though—unlike chess, the rules for what was happening don't even exist except possibly in fragments in Shirow Masamune's brain. We were told, or had it hinted to us, that mistakes or brilliant moves were being made, but no way existed to actually see that.

yeah, that's the impression i got. when she was hacking her way to Motoko, i glanced at the words, then just spent the rest of the time looking at her butt.

the reason i prefer SAC to the manga or the movies is, it feels to me like SAC actually explores stuff the manga and movies only touch on. the manga and movies ask questions--SAC explores answers. the manga/movies are all about "this is what could be", while SAC is about "this is how real life interacts with wondering what could be". i suppose that could just be the format--mo' time, mo' explorin'.

plus, though? SAC shows more asskicking. there's usually at least one "oh hell yeah!" moment every other episode or so. GitS2 only had one in the whole movie, and GitS... eh, didn't really have any.
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post May 30 2007, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE
and GitS... eh, didn't really have any

While only Jiminy Glick may know the true definition of a "oh hell yeah!" moment what about the Motoko's showdown with the tank at the end.

As for the Renraku 何?chikoma, it looks good for just over 300K Y. Any reason for the RPK in the internal hardpoint? (as opposed to other MG's)
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Kagetenshi
post May 30 2007, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
Dont' forget the grenade launcher of theirs in the errr... 'nose'.

That's the pod I'm talking about. Sometimes they have a GL, sometimes an HMG.

QUOTE (mfb)
GitS... eh, didn't really have any.

It had the scene where the decoy car gets taken out. That one always gets an impressed audience reaction at the showings I've been to.

As for the RPK, it was less expensive and the other advantages of the M107 didn't matter to me at the time.

~J
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mfb
post May 31 2007, 03:52 AM
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the decoy car scene was a'ight, but it had nothing on, say, Batou's cyberarm blossoming into a shotgun. or when Motoko blocked that giant cyborg's attack and the cement under her feet shattered. or when Batou decided that stairs are for pussies, in the 2nd Gig movie...
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Snow_Fox
post Jun 6 2007, 02:53 AM
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you all need to have a lnog nap, or a big drink. Fuchikoma may have a roll in the manga but not really in the cartoon, 2nd gig- and I'm not saying more on that because I don't want to let out spoilewrs. if you know, be quiet for those who don't.

I'll admit I'd thought about these but then decided it would be too weird. i keep forgetting what people here can get up to.
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mfb
post Jun 6 2007, 03:34 AM
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fuchikoma show up a bit more prominently in the 2nd Gig movie, Solid State Society.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Jun 12 2007, 01:15 AM
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For me, the rules exist for Tachikomas (Or Fuchi if you prefer) to be built within the SR universe. However, after building one multiple times and losing it, i have realised that there is only really one "person" that would be able to push that tech edge far enough.

Deus.

Considering what you need to do to build a 'Koma with the AI, it makes Medusea look almost retarded.
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PBTHHHHT
post Jun 12 2007, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
fuchikoma show up a bit more prominently in the 2nd Gig movie, Solid State Society.

Ah, uhm... forgot to mention this if no one else did anywhere else. Scifi network showed the movie at 11 already. Anyway, the dvd is coming out next month for those that missed it.

We need not only designs for the tachikomas but also the rest of the multiped tank family. The one in the second episode of the first season would be nasty.
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mfb
post Jun 12 2007, 02:24 PM
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that bad boy isn't possible to create, or even approximate, under SR3 rules. the biggest walker you can have is the size of a sedan.
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Tiralee
post Jun 13 2007, 07:23 AM
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[QUOTE] that bad boy isn't possible to create, or even approximate, under SR3 rules. the biggest walker you can have is the size of a sedan.[QUOTE]

Sadly, yes. I suppose you could home-brew it up and make it entirely **Mil-Grade Research Project** but that goes for a :nuyen: 5k drone in SR.

That being said, only insane, suicidal or plain uninformed runners go in versus military.

-And I'm not talking rolling a couple of troopers for their side arms here.

There is a reason why mil-spec gear (ie weapons, electronics and communications) is so highly sought after and use of punished so severly.

The average rigger would fill their choice of pants at a proper milgrade ECM/ECCM rig designed to make an opposing force's day a lot worse. Couple that with a mobile, hardened, rail-gun-on-the-roof vehicle and it's time to start the rerolling.

Sure, it's fun pulling it out and watching a town recoil in fear, but there are some rules in SR that are set in stone and highlight in blood ->

A big toy will attract the bigger bully. And you're going to go home in tears.



_Tir
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Shockwave_IIc
post Jun 15 2007, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
that bad boy isn't possible to create, or even approximate, under SR3 rules. the biggest walker you can have is the size of a sedan.

Which about the size of a Tachikoma no? The one at the end of 2nd gig that collapses next to Ishikawa's car seemed to be around the size of his car.
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mfb
post Jun 15 2007, 05:24 PM
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i was talking about the tank prototype in the 2nd ep of SAC.

...and 5k :nuyen: , Tiralee? sure you don't mean 5,000k :nuyen: ?
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