Down in the Gutter: OOC, The Nuts and Bolts of Staying Alive Options

[Slipshade]

Reguardless, I updated Child's takes on people. I love doing that.

So do I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Lindt - Do you need WR to tell you what happens? It seems like a shopping trip and even boosting a car can be pretty much free formed. What GM wise do you need?

[Mister Juan]

So do I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Lindt - Do you need WR to tell you what happens? It seems like a shopping trip and even boosting a car can be pretty much free formed. What GM wise do you need?

That reminds me... I don't think I've ever finished Felix's takes on everyone...

[Lindt]

Lindt - Do you need WR to tell you what happens? It seems like a shopping trip and even boosting a car can be pretty much free formed. What GM wise do you need?

I dunna know, do we?

[ChipheadCharley]

Hello everyone! I've been told I'm close to being accepted into the game and wanted to say hello. Iceberg Slim will be your colorful pimp-in-residence.

[Mister Juan]

Hello everyone! I've been told I'm close to being accepted into the game and wanted to say hello. Iceberg Slim will be your colorful pimp-in-residence.

Good to have you on board!

[WinterRat1]

I'm writing a post weighing in on the 'time jump' issue, but I need to eat dinner now.

I will weigh in on this later tonight. Since how we handle that issue is relevant to many of you, no one move forward just yet until my ruling is up.

[adamu]

Can you give me a page reference? I'll look it up and make a call from there.

Re. Crusher 495

In the real Seattle book, page 131, and 132 for the graphic. A bit candy for me relative to how Redmond is supposed to be. Might be an okay place in a C neighborhood of Renton or somewhere.

In New Seattle, you get a significantly more wussified version on page 63.

My 0.02 nuyen is leave it out!

[WinterRat1]

Hey Everyone –

I’ve remained silent to allow people to weigh in with their opinions regarding the proposed time jumps.

I feel a sufficient amount of time has passed so those who wanted to say something could, and now I’ll make a ruling, at least for the time being.

The time jump was proposed to counter the slow down when people do not post, and keep the game moving forward.

The main objection to this is many things will get ‘lost in translation’, since people cannot necessarily post the required amount of posts to keep up with the pace and frequency of the time jump, even if they try. The problem is exacerbated if people cannot post, for whatever reason.

I would definitely like the game to move forward at a brisker pace, as a good pace keeps everyone, including me, more interested, and that’s a necessity for a healthy and fun forum game.

On the flip side, I do not want to do so at the expense of good role-playing, continuity, and character development. I especially do not want the game to devolve into a flood of PMs to and from various players who are all in their own little groups because their PCs are separated from the others. I want to see what is happening in everyone’s story, and I think it’s fair to say that’s probably the majority opinion.

Furthermore, handling everything via PM can actually create additional problems. For example, suppose during their little foray to the store Bockscar and Child get jumped while they visit the Asphalt Kings. That takes a considerable amount of time to resolve, and the outcome is both uncertain and highly relevant to what happens next with them.

When we jump forward, where do we place them? What if over the course of our PMs, the two of them escape back to the Gang HQ with the Kings hot on their heels at 01:00:00, but everyone else has already jumped forward to 02:00:00 in the main thread? Do we retcon everyone? Do we disregard Bockscar and Child’s decision to run home? There simply isn’t an easy solution. The only way to avoid that is for me to arbitrarily restrict the encounters you face to avoid being ‘overrun’ by the time jumps, and that’s not a viable solution.

Beyond that, as the last week shows, it still doesn’t solve the main problem. I didn’t see anyone posting even though they knew they’d be bumped. Forget forward story progress, I didn’t even see inter-PC role-playing. Clearly bumping the time forward can advance the time, but it can’t advance the story if players aren’t posting and creating the story, and it can’t make people post.

I do agree the time jump is an excellent solution in most forum games, which revolve around the players as a united whole, and the purpose of the game is to move the team from Event A to Event B to Event C so they can ultimately complete their objectives in a timely, efficient manner.

However, a game like DITG differs from the majority of forum games (indeed, most RP games) in several major respects.

First, there are no ‘main objectives’ in this game. I don’t have an overarching metaplot; there’s nothing happening that requires your participation in it. So it really doesn’t manner when or even if you get from ‘Event A’ to ‘Event B’, because there is no Event A or B. Stuff is happening, and you certainly can influence it or even wholly change it, but it is in no way conditional or dependent upon you. Consequently, forcing time forward serves no real purpose, because we’re not trying to ‘get’ anywhere in particular.

That flows into our second major difference. DITG is not a game about a story, job, or mission; it’s a game about people. Therefore, the focus has to stay on the people, even at the expense of the story. DITG has always been about interpersonal relationships, the struggle to stay alive, the nitty-gritty day to day questions, dilemmas, and challenges of survival in the Barrens. If we sacrifice that for the sake of moving forward, yes we move forward, but at the expense of what DITG was created to play through in the first place.

Third, DITG is a game about the dregs of society. Gangers. This is important because therein lies the change in perception that leads to how I will handle this issue. Hold this thought for a moment while I show you how this applies.

We will continue playing DITG as we always have, using time splinters and occasional sync up posts from me.

However, now that everyone is together and more or less officially a part of the gang, there is going to be one major difference in how I sync things up.

Specifically, I will NOT try to include everyone in the sync up post. If you ‘aren’t around’ to be synced up or are ineligible to be moved forward due to being currently tied up in an event somewhere else, I will leave you out of the sync up post to continue your own story at your own pace, and bump you forward at the earliest and most logical moment.

That sounds confusing, so let’s give an example using current events.

Example

Suppose the following IC facts are true:
1. Bockscar and Child go on their planned shopping trip

2. Ink, Grack, and Thumper go to the Bodega on a food run.

3. Felix and Baby go to ex-Splintered Crash turf to scavenge some supplies

Suppose the following OOC facts are also true:
1. Rob and Lindt don’t actually post any IC posts about their shopping trip, for whatever reason

2. Ink, Grack, and Thumper run into trouble at the Bodega and get caught up in a fight that requires combat resolution (i.e. actual dice rolling and combat mechanics). All three continue to actively post OOC and IC.

3. After writing several posts back and forth with Felix and Baby, Mister Juan goes AWOL and doesn’t post, leaving Slipshade ‘stranded’ and waiting on him to reply.

At whatever point in time I deem appropriate, probably when either the majority of PCs are at a holding point or just if the game is stalled, I will inform everyone of an impending sync up.

The situations above would be addressed as follows:

1. Bockscar and Child would be synced up with the rest of the gang. It would be ruled they never went on their shopping trip.

2. We would finish the fight with Ink, Grack, and Thumper, regardless of how long it took in RL. They would then be synced up with the rest of the gang in a time and manner that makes the most sense. Note that this assumes they are actively posting/participating in the fight. If they were not, then I would determine the result and sync them up with the rest of gang. (Translation: If you’re going to stop posting or disappear, in the middle of a fight is a bad time to do it. Of course, if you let me know in advance, that’s an entirely different story.)

3. As the one left stranded, Slipshade would make the decision to either be synced up with the gang or work with me to handwave the rest of Felix and Baby’s scene.

What does this have to do with point 3? I realized that in some respects, the reason people (myself included) feel like the pace is dragging at times or get frustrated with ‘lack of progress’ is because we’re thinking and playing as if the gangers are shadowrunners. And not just any shadowrunners, but PC shadowrunners. Super efficient, super effective, always doing something, always on the move, always making the most out of whatever time and resources they have.

Except as point 3 above states, they aren’t shadowrunners. They’re not even normal civilians, who aren’t exactly the most efficient people alive either. They’re the dregs of society, they’re street gangers. Instead of working hard and choosing to climb the ladder the normal manner, they choose to prey on others, and usually in the easiest possible way. They are selfish, lazy, and searching for the maximum benefit for minimal effort.

Forget the myth of the hard-working ganger who rises up through hustle, grit, determination, and entrepreneurship. I immediately concede there are gangers who fit that description, but they are by far the exception to the rule. And as an extremely small time gang with a grand total of less than 20 people (and that’s if I count the whores), the October Ravens definitely fall under the rule.

Can you as PCs be the exception? Of course, but you have to actually play like it via your IC posting. If you don’t, then my default behavior for you will be that of the typical ganger: just wanting to survive to see tomorrow, and if they’re really lucky, they’ll satisfy some of their baser desires in the process. No higher ambitions, no super-entrepreneurial spirit, no go-getter attitude that has them operating at maximum possible efficiency all day, every day.

Therefore, I will have no problems handwaving time, perhaps up to even several days if necessary to keep the game moving, and saying you all simply sat around, consumed resources (lifestyle) and abused substances. If that means you didn’t put any schemes together, fell behind your competing gangs, or just sat around and wasted time…well that’s exactly what gangers do!

The reason I’m staying with the time splinter and sync up approach is to keep the game moving; not holding up the people who are posting for the sake of those who don’t, but not penalizing them for getting involved in post-intensive scenarios either.

At the end of the day though, let me remind everyone once again this is a game heavily geared towards and based on social interaction, personal agendas, individual initiative, and day-to-day life. If you work towards those things, you will have a much smoother and consistent gameplay experience than if you lean towards the traditional Shadowrun style of objective oriented, event based, and big picture centered gameplay.

Ultimately, DITG gives you the player as much as you invest in it. In that respect, it’s very much like life.

I hope this clears up any questions as to how we will be proceeding moving forward. So everyone feel free to post away, but consider this post advance notice that if I don’t see any forward progress in about a week or so, I will bump you all forward. And ‘forward progress’ means actual progress, not one or two stray posts in the general direction of something resembling progress. If that means you were stuck sitting around doing nothing and wasting time, then so be it. Welcome to life as a ganger.

[rob]

I'm good to post following (1) confirmation who all's with me and/or (2) introduction into the king's turf - or interesting places along the way...

[WinterRat1]

Rob - When you post your departure, I'll give you an intro post to the Asphalt Kings turf. Are you planning on stopping there first? Also, your knowledge of SR 2 decking is sufficient for our discussion. I will keep working on it, but since the 'how' is not an immediate mechanical issue, it's currently low on my priority list relative to other RP and RL stuff at the moment. Just remind me if I don't say anything about it for a while.

Meriss - Which points did you use to buy the Martial Arts quality? if you remember, there was an 'A', 'B', and 'C' block of rewards, each with their own traits. Let me know which one you used to purchase it with and I can give you an answer.

Charley - Welcome aboard, we're looking forward to having you with us!

Pragma, Adamu, Meriss - You guys are all free to post the trip to the Bodega, you will arrive there with no trouble, unless you go looking for some.

Re Crusher 495 - I'm with adamu, we're going to leave Crusher 495 out of Kingsgate. It may show up in Touristville, but it's way too nice and humane for the 'Gate. Racial harmony? The Plague caused the Salvation Army to stop sending human female workers to the 'Gate after the fourth gang rape in broad daylight. Tolerance and understanding are not cherished values in this part of town.

Re Addiction Tests - Everyone passed except Rico, who needed a fix of BTL. Since Rico already did that IC, no further action needs to be taken at this time.

[Meriss]

@Winter: I'm fairly sure I spent Category A bonus BP.

[Mister Juan]

3. After writing several posts back and forth with Felix and Baby, Mister Juan goes AWOL and doesn’t post, leaving Slipshade ‘stranded’ and waiting on him to reply.

Now now now! Why do I have to be asshole! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

@Slipshade

Waiting up on you mate.

[Slipshade]

MJ - Because Baby is just to cute and sweet to be an asshole. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sorry, I will try to get something up soonish.

[WinterRat1]

Meriss - No training time was necessary for Category A BP. It was a 'retroactive' award to compensate for the fact that I increased the starting BP of new players to 310 due to Arsenal's release. If you bought Martial Arts with those BP, the change is considered to be effective immediately.

Mister Juan & Slipshade - Actually, it was because Baby is hotter than Felix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[WinterRat1]

Rob and Lindt - Where in Asphalt Kings turf are you going? Their HQ (wherever it is, we'll nail it down eventually) or just one of the places you know they tend to hang out? Of course you know where the former is, and several locations fit the description of the latter. So it's really up to you.

[rob]

Box was planning to meander in the general direction of their headquarters until he sees folks wearing colors, then say 'hello.'

I've already posted departure, so the rest is at your convenience.

[pragma]

@Merriss

Feel free to IC whatever you want with Ink's relations up until the departure. If you do decide to push time forward a bunch, Thumper will wander around mostly minding his own business and making somewhat pointed comments about dinner until he's served, than he'll take a lot of food and a lot of beer as it becomes available -- he's hoping to polish off somewhere around a six pack and a big dinner. If you cut him off before that, please only IC up to that point.

@Winter

How does eating at the bodega affect Thumper's impending lifestyle payment?

[Meriss]

@Pragma: Guess it's up to Winter now.

[WinterRat1]

Charley - My bad! I just called Vegas and apparently I got mixed up and you've been waiting on me to post and get you started. Somehow I thought you weren't ready yet or I was supposed to be waiting on something before posting for you. I sincerely apologize for the screw up on my part.

Thanks for your patience, let's get you rolling ASAP. Is there any particular place you envision Slim starting, or area you think he would have historically frequented? Try to pick somewhere reasonably near the October Ravens current turf (Hammerpack's former turf) so there's a plausible chance they'll encounter you, as they're unlikely to go wandering into other gangs' turf at this time.

Pragma, Meriss, Grack - Assuming the boys grab their food, I will add 1 to all your lifestyles, which will then be subtracted come payment time. Functionally, the meal will serve as your lifestyle payment for the 06:00:00 deadline.

IC posts coming for our hungry trio and repair-oriented duo, and Charley as soon as you reply you'll have top priority for my next IC post.

[WinterRat1]

Meriss - Might want to edit your last IC post's time stamp to be more in line with the time stamp and location of the second half of Pragma's post, which I worked off of. Thanks.

Pragma - Same to you, I think you got the address of the Gato wrong.

[WinterRat1]

Grendel and Voorhees - FYI, I wasn't planning on mediating this sparring match with dice rolls, so feel free to resolve it however you two prefer.

[Fresno Bob]

Yeah, neither was I. I sent him a PM to discuss it, so I'm just waiting on the next time he logs on I guess.

[grendel]

It's fine with me if we describe it cinematically. I don't think it matters one way or another if Legion comes out on top, after all, it's just sparring. But Legion's the kind of guy who will push to come out on top no matter what, and I don't think Aziz is going to want to hold back either. Eventually they're going to close in a pass that's just a little too close for practice, maybe even draw a little blood, before Legion calls a halt to the session so neither one of them gets really injured.

[adamu]

pragma and Meriss -

Hey guys - I am the first to concede that when in his laconic style of thinking, Grack's posts are not really as clear as when his mind is more loquacious.
So it's totally my bad that no one seems to have caught the gist of my last IC post -

Get out.

Hungry.

Go to door.

Raise Toy.

So that's hungry and deaf Grack heading straight for the door and raising his combat axe to eliminate any annoying impediments between himself and food. And he wouldn't hesitate to look around for permission or anything.
Stopped at the moment I did assuming Ink would not want him to do that - but only my fault the action was unclear.

I see two quick and easy fixes - I can edit my post to something innocuous, or Ink or Thumper can put something at the head of their last posts signalling (preferably by sign language or commlink) to Grack to stop, and then he does.

Or if anyone has any other thoughts.

[pragma]

@adamu

Sorry, I hadn't seen your post until now. IC post up, I'll let you roll with the resolution. If it turns out that Grack's going to swing at something, I hope Thump's enhanced reflexes are taken into account.