Is loading S&S in a light pistol exploity? Options

[Dancer]

Stick and Shock rounds do the same damage no matter what you fire them from. This means that a light or holdout pistol does far more damage with S&S rounds than with any other round type (even against nonconductive 6 it's slightly better than ex-ex), with the added advantages of nonlethality and tetanising people. In your opinion is loading your backup weapon with S&S rounds a twinky decision to be frowned on, or a logical in-character choice?

[Ironfish]

Honestly? Even as a GM, They seems like a logical sensible choice. A bit expensive, sure, but well worth it. I was somewhat disappointed that none of my players noticed them. I think when I get the game going again, the Cops are going to carry the stuff. Might get the team thinking.

[sunnyside]

S&S is just one of those things where I just wonder what they were thinking.

Actually some people here might know that.

Anyway you always hear people talking about machine pistols with S&S. Occasionally in regards to getting around spirit immunities.

Still, in game I guess we must assume that the "shock" part of the bullet is smaller than a .22 and the rest is just the bulk that lets it travel further. So sure, load it up.

It does have the disadvantage that it can't punch through obstructions.

Personally though I set the gametime a little earlier so it's back in the narcoject days.

[Dancer]

[Arz]

IT's just the same as having your gun freaks carrying a gun loaded with ap, frag, ex, and rub. That's four guns to get noticed but hey, you've got it all covered if you bling-bling some grenades as fashionable accessories.

Seriously this is why different groups might have the armor add-ons to pretty well stop these from working. Anyone that carries a stun weapon probably has beefy protection from it. Accidents happen, and the police especially cover themselves from being taken down by their own weapons

[Ravor]

Also its not nearly so bad once you rule that -1/2 AP doesn't affect Immunity to Normal Weapons and that mundane elemental attacks count as 'mundane'.

[Moon-Hawk]

[Matsu Kurisu]

We have removed Stick n Shock from the game via house rule.
Its TOOO unbalancing and removes the point of having tasers etc

[Jack Kain]

You all do know they nerfed the damage down to 4S(e) in errata?


And S&S doesn't use half AP it uses half impact armor. if a creatures armor isn't described has having impact armor. Simply armor. No effect.

[FrankTrollman]

I rule that taser weapons do not deal extra damage for achieving net hits and are a "touch weapon". That really takes them out of the hands of experienced gun bunnies and puts them into the hands of grandmothers and beat cops where they belong.

-Frank

[Moon-Hawk]

[sunnyside]

[WearzManySkins]

In version 1.5 of erratta, it has no mention of stick and shock.

4th printing of the BBB has the damage as 6S(e) half AP using Impact armor. Tasers are shown as half armor but does give any type.

I agree Jack Cain then it only halves the impact armor, does not affect Immunity to Normal Weapons.

But what if the target was wearing a armored vest 6/4 with rating 6 nonconductivity, would that mean against SnS that the impact rating would be 8 or 10?

Another question, most taser weapons in the BBB only only fire either SS or SA. Weapons loaded with SnS firing Burst or Full, do they gain the benefit of such bursts ie increased damage rating?

WMS

Edited 12 to a 10

[Eryk the Red]

Rules-as-written? Fire modes are unchanged by ammo type. So, yeah, bursts with SnS are allowed. How would I play it? The same. I have had no issues with SnS seeming unbalanced. Would it be reasonable to limit SnS, saying it cannot be fired in bursts? Probably. I wouldn't do it. But I wouldn't fault the GM that made that restriction.

[Ravor]

Disclaimer: I'm going to assume that the 8 or 12 was a typo and that you meant 8 or 10, if I'm wrong and you meant something else please correct me.


Well personally I'd say that the actual Impact Rating is still -1/2 down to ( Rating 2 ) before adding in the Nonconductivity ( Rating 6 ) so in the end you are looking at resisting with ( Rating 8 ) Armor.

[FriendoftheDork]

I house rule stickn shock to 4S, so it's not an issue to me. Still, they're better as they do halve impact armor. It won't help against spirits unless you overcome their hardened armor, but otherwise it rocks.

[sunnyside]

For the OP. If your GM actually allows the stuff than it makes sense in game.

However as you're seeing most GMs don't like it and tend to remove/nerf it.

[djinni]

[WearzManySkins]

From another thread relating to the one of the issues
From Garrowolf's post:

[Narmio]

I also removed Stick and Shock from my games. Sort of partially because it blows all other nonlethal methods out of the water, but primarily because it's silly. Silly, silly, silly.

In my campaigns it was an Ares research project that became a publically laughable failure; no means was found to reliably stop the capacitors from failing when fired out of a gun, even with reduced loads. The prototypes tended to spray people with bits of capacitor, sort of pathetic electronics shrapnel.

Maybe that's realistic, maybe it's not, maybe this thread will now become one of Dumpshock's famous "bring the gun nuts out of the woodwork" monstrosities. I hope not. But it's worked for me.

[Demon_Bob]

I'm not going with the modified ammo rules until S&S is changed. Although on a difficult run all the guards have Non-Conductivity 6. I mean why nerf the other ammo and not the one that everyone agrees is the most broken.

[Dancer]

On the subject of nonlethality, are injection rounds available? For people who think the Super Squirt is the 14th stupidest thing to ever see print?

[yoippari]

I would love if they put in low power injection rounds. Since the fuel and everything is self contained in the round and they are just dependent on the gun to point it in the right direction and some signal to "go" I don't see any real life reason why they wouldn't work. Might involve a bit more meat in the cartridge to hold whatever low power propellant (I'm picturing small air canister) is needed to launch it but not bury itself a couple inches in the target. I'm a bit biased right now though as one of my characters would have fun loading someone up with zen from a distance.

Re: SnS I don't like all the specialty rounds for small caliber weapons like assault rifles and even the larger pistols. I won't buy SnS or flechette for anything but a shot gun. I'll probably buy explosive at some point but it isn't that big of a difference with the newer erretas. The elephant gun I can see SnS though. There is a guy over at thefireingline.org who turned a savage 12ga action into a 12ga rifle by using modified 50 BMG cases and .72 cal "bullets". If you could put a capacitor into anything it was one of those.

[Dancer]

[GoldenAri]

The 6S and 1/2 impact never doesn't feel broken when compared to the cost of the ammunition. The thing that makes it so damned killer effective is the electrical secondary effect. The electrical secondary effect is incredibly overpowered letting the dice choose between "dead"(figurativly) and "screwed". With my players I don't throw electrical attacks at them, and they don't throw them at me.