 Starting Run, Should it be a fair milk-run? |
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 Jun 22 2007, 12:10 AM
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#1
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Horror  Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445  |
Okay, here's the thing.
I'm planning to run Ping Time as a precursor to running On the Run. Ping Time is short enough it should take only a night of play over OpenRPG, it has a pretty hefty pay-out, too. (35,000 :nuyen: ). This is, I feel, a reasonable pay-out for a mission undertaken on such short notice and with such high risk of injury or death; the players have to battle a white-water river, and then immideately after that do battle with a couple of kidnappers, one of whom is a mage who can throw a 12d fireball. Also, if they screw up, they'll be looking at monowire or electrified monowire, and an encounter with the Salish military or Aztechnology security. Also, they're running against the clock. I'm trying to decide how much Karma this should be worth. I think an overall of 10 karma, plus extra for good roleplaying, as a "First successful run" bonus to make up for the lack of length of the Run (lengthy runs being more likely to pay out better over a longer peroid of time, due to the fact that players will (rightly, IMO) expect some pay-out at the end of each seshi), as well as to let them expand some. The question is, what should I do about On the Run. I'm thinking of running it after I do Ping Time, but it's payout is a pathetic 10K. That's barely enough to get a Shadowrunner to take a daytrip milk-run, in my opinion, since just by going out in public the average 'runner commits several felonies. That'll barely pay the rent money. So I was thinking of upping the "default" payout 20K, and either having Mr. Johnson double the money if they get him the disk safe and sound (thus retroactively having matched JetBlack's offer), or else pay them off some other way. I'd say equipment, but since it dosen't seem likely he has access to equipment Shadowrunners want... I'm kind of at a loss there. |
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Jun 22 2007, 02:42 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Well I have a different take on the situation. Unless the runners are very experienced, 10k for a job isn't that bad. Sure, it won't pay for high lifestyle, but most runners should start at low anyway and work themselves up. It's not like jobs grow on trees. As long as the run is worth some risk, and a little time it doesen't have to pay very much. The first job my team did earned them less than 100 nuyen each! Of course, that was before they became runners. They did a short easy run for 5000 as their first run, where they mainly had to observe and not enter any combat (but still had to risk themselves driving choppers through the Barrens in a wild chase). The second, a robbery of an armored truck's inventory earned them 6000. On the run paid them 16k nuyen, as they got the loyalty bonus and bargained a bit. It's about what the PCs expect. And I like to keep them low, as that makes them that more desperate to get good jobs, which cyberpunk is all about. Guess what they though when they got offered 20,000 EACH! Oh and 10 karma seems too much for the first run, I gave out 7 for On the Run because they did so well. I'd probably halve it. And lower the challenge a bit, no need to kill them all on their first job now is it? |
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Jun 22 2007, 02:53 AM
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#3
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Well, it is a pre-prepared adventure, which Aaron says is balanced for new characters...
I like my players to enjoy playing the game, though. They'd look at a reward of 100 :nuyen: apiece and if they didn't tell me to take a nice big piss off, they'd all switch to mages so they could advance with Karma. [edit]And, I have a very The Matrix inspired world-view of Shadowrun. |
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Jun 22 2007, 03:15 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
Which is backwards. ;) And to contribute, I agrre with FotD, above. :D /wave SD8685 |
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Jun 22 2007, 03:21 AM
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#5
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
The teacher teaches the pupil who teaches the student.
I just like to view my Shadowrun through the $3,500 glasses of Neo. :) |
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Jun 22 2007, 04:20 AM
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#6
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
10 karma also sounds like an awful lot. My usual award is 5-6, depedning on difficulty, opposition, and roleplay.
[edit]I also don't reccomend On The Run, especially for new players. This post has been edited by Cain: Jun 22 2007, 06:56 AM |
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Jun 22 2007, 12:13 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Well if it's balanced for newbies I think the reward is too great. And enjoying the game is not the same as having rich characters with no problems. Having to work yourself up makes those big payouts later so much more worth it, as they've earned it. 100 nuyen is of course nothing for a shadowrun, my team would of course ignore it today as well. But if they have no income, no magic, almost no starting equipment and are trapped in the Barrens those 100 nuyen means they won't starve for a few days! I've nerfed magic-users alot in my campaign to compensate BTW, almost too much as the current mage has crappy magic skills. Well, with alot of karma he will be kickass. Matrix.. I liked the film but it's not about Shadowrunning. Matrix is a struggle between good and evil, Shadowrun is a struggle for survival. But go ahead and do what you want, it's your game. I'm just saying if you give so much on your first run their expectations will rise very quickly and they'll be having panther assault cannons and power foci very soon. |
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Jun 22 2007, 02:14 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
My first impression of this run is that it is on rails, way too much room for things to go wrong. A first adventure should offer much more tolerance for failure or off the wall approaches.
What if the party tires to magically locate the guy via, say, hairs from his hairbrush? What if they attempt to locate the kidnapper's through more conventional investigation? What if they come up with some way of getting to the site other than the white water rafting? How did the kidnappers get to the island? It would be very hard to handle a raft with two people plus the unconscious body of the kid. If you want to reduce the payout amount, you can have the fixer owe them a favour instead. After all, they could have just turned the mission down flat. |
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Jun 22 2007, 02:53 PM
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#9
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
As a general rule, a Shadowrunner should Net more money from a run than he could have obtained by stealing a and fencing car per day during the (in game) time it took to prepare for the complete the run, including the pre- and post- meetings, healing, surgeries, and foraging for equipment.
Karma rewards should also compare favorably to to barrens-street-escort grinding. |
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Jun 22 2007, 08:39 PM
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#10
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
As far as expectations, I plan to explain to them, point-blank, that I'm dropping a blue milk run with a cheesecake payoff in their hands for the first run, as a "Welcome to Seattle, now get your asses in gear" bonus. The ten karma will let them spot any overtly glaring flaws in their character builds and move towards correcting them - whether this means being able to buy off a 5-point flaw they took in chargen, or take some extra points in a skill or skill group they did not have before (say, the skills behind white-water rafting), or if they just want to take it and do something else with it, it's up to them. The cash is of course, a perfectly reasonable reward for a Shadowrun undertaken on very short notice with next to zero intel. Most runners (rightly) refuse such runs hands-down, no matter how good the reward is; I'm hoping my players have a little more charitable an outlook than most players, and of course, if they don't want to take the run, that means we can all sod off early. As for on the run, Hyz, how much would a good social adept get for the fencing of a regular Ford Americar, per day, as a way to judge the cash? I have one play who's making a social adept, and I think she's gonna wind up being pretty good at munching out the face role. |
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Jun 22 2007, 10:14 PM
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#11
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
A good social adept, I'd imagine, could get between 1,250 and 3,000 per vehicle if they are in good shape, with 2,000 being the mode. He could get more for direct sales, rather than fencing, but these add to the overhead.
This is in SR4 prices, which are rather low compared to previous editions. Chop shops aren't going to pay top dollar for a vehicle, but the individual parts are far more valuable than the sticker price so they can afford to pay reasonably well. Without a face, I'd say 500-1500 with 1000 being the mode. This gives us 60,000 a month for the face, 30,000 a month for a character with normal social skills, and 15,000 a month for the CHA 1 Uncouth troll. 35,000 is reasonable for a run, though on the low end once you factor in equipment costs and potential hospitalization. But, this assumes that they'll only be doing one run a month. |
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Jun 22 2007, 10:18 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
On the run should pay out 15k-20k depending on how they end the run.
Specifics behind spoilers: [ Spoiler ] I think 10 karma is great to start out with. I made the mistake of giving my runners ~30 karma on the first run. that was waaay too much. I wasn't keeping very close track though, ah well. |
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Jun 23 2007, 03:30 AM
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#13
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Hmmmm...
Between the Blue Milk Run (aka Ping Time) and On the Run, they could wind up with ~50K, depending on how they play their cards. Ping Time nets them 35K, 37K if they're greedy. I'm thinking of upping the reward of On the Run, because 10-15K - hell, even 20K - won't even pay for rent, let alone potential hospitalizations. |
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Jun 23 2007, 12:15 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Hospitalization ain't that bad in SR4, and actually usually unnecessary if the party has someone with decent first aid. Healing is ALOT quicker than in previous editions. But yeah total runs in a month (if more than one) should be more than the characters highest lifesstyle unless you want to make them especially desperate. As for car jacking etc. I try to minimize such in my game, mainly because it is boring. Sure, the hacker often steals cars, but that's for using them in missions and then dumping them right after. And those cars are typically old with bad security, if he had to take a nice one it would be ALOT harder and possibly lethal. A car can be as well protected as a corporate node! |
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Jun 23 2007, 03:16 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 19-June 07 From: Florida Member No.: 11,950 |
I also try to discourage the common criminal activities in games that I run.
The problem is that a 400 point character in SR can be the king of petty crooks in no time flat. I think hyzmarca is right about the value of runs v. the value of crime but there is one other important element to be considered. Especially for new runners. Other Criminals. The gang mbr provide in SR4 may only be PR1 but if you throw enough of them at the runners than even if they kill all the gangers and take all their gear they're still going to end up spending more on the street doc to patch them up than they will have made off the scratch they took from the gangers. Other criminals who operate in the area where the runners are committing their crimes are going to notice and they're going to want their cuts and in a world like Shadowrun this can go all the way up to the top and have major criminal syndicates and law enforcement groups after them just because they wanted to boost some cars for extra scratch. |
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