 Wi-Fi Blocking |
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 Jun 23 2007, 06:06 AM
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#1
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Cybernetic Blood Mage  Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361  |
You know, with all the attention that the Matrix has gottten recently I've been wondering how much DMs have been charging for Wi-Fi Blocking Paint/Wallpaper as well as how hard it is to get ahold of in your campaign? (Unless I've simply missed something, it doesn't have a listed Cost/Avaiblity.)
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Jun 23 2007, 06:50 AM
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#2
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
I'm personally assuming that RF-inhibiting paint/wallpaper is essentially wallpaper that has a backing of a fine copper mesh, and the paint is basically laced with fine copper that will solidy into a mesh when it dries.
Thus, basically turning a room into a giant faraday cage. As such, I'd expect it to be cheap, pretty darn cheap. I'd say you could do a 20x20 room for about 500 :nuyen: worth of stuff - labour is of course not included. |
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Jun 23 2007, 07:05 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Except that it won't. Do you wallpaper over your electrical outlets? Water pipes? How about doors, given that the space at the bottom, top and sides of a door is essentially a slot antenna? Do you wallpaper over them? Do you wallpaper the ceiling and floors? How do you protect the floor from damage? Actually making an effective RF containment requires a lot more work and money than throwing some metal on the walls. And the longer the wavelenght, the smaller the holes. And SR RF seems to be extremely wide spectrum, so you end up needing the maximum hole size to be less than a millimeter. Which is quite hard. |
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Jun 23 2007, 07:12 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
As for the electrical outlets I'm sure the plate that covers them can be filled with copper and the doors all have paint.
I'd wager the rf blocking paint is some new miracle in technology and we should just assume that it magically works because the game designers wrote it. It could be tons of tiny jammers that block the signals, it could be the copper in the wall, it could be many things. Saying it works is enough. As to availability I would assume that all the wallpaper and paint sold comes with it. Every room would also have a hard wire to the outside or a matrix repeater so that you can access stuff inside if you have the codes. |
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Jun 23 2007, 07:18 PM
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#5
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
WiFi inhibiting wallpaper/pint uses aluminium whiskers IIRC, and works quite well IRL in reducing the SNR.
Keep in mind though, that it is capped at 10 in SR - so any signal broadcastet with Signal 5+ and received on a ECCM 6 platform will go through. |
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Jun 23 2007, 07:34 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
That won't work. See the seam where the plate screws into the wall? That's a slot antenna. Look at the gap under your door?. That's a slot antenna. You'd need to install metal RF gaskets on all of these. And since people walk and roll carts full of hundreds of pounds of junk over door thresholds this is hard to do and keep undamaged. That's ignoring the issues with having electrically conductive RF blocking material and power lines in extremely close proximity. Covering the walls with a conductive material will attenuate the signal, but not block it unless you really do a lot of difficult and expensive tricks that have to be tested and maintained on a regular basis. You're a lot more likely to live with extensively attenuating the signal rather than trying to really block it. Which means a really powerful signal outside and a high gain antenna inside can probably do something, but you can't connect to the low powered building network from the outside without a lot of expensive toys, skill and a certain lack of subtlety. Like the Semi parked outside the building for a week with the running generator. |
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Jun 23 2007, 07:43 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Shadowrun is 2070, not 2007. It's not hard to assume that there are far more impressive materials and technologies that can be used to affordably block wireless communications as the rules allow.
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Jun 23 2007, 07:47 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
I certainly don't want to get in the way of your worshiping the rules, if that's how you are inclined.
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Jun 23 2007, 08:06 PM
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#9
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Look, I provided a 2007-understandable explination, it dosen't have to be exact! It dosen't need a radio engineer to pick it apart. The point is that even in 2007, turning a room into a faraday cage in such a manner would quite effectively block all signals. Sure, you could jink, juke, and jitter, and get some small measure of signal through, but hell, my cell phone can't get a reliable signal near the middle of my house. If they actually TRY to block the signal, it's getting blocked.
So, maybe it's not a faraday cage as we know of it now. Maybe it's a faraday cage made in new and interesting nanorelated ways. Maybe it's only conceptually related to a faraday cage. The point is that rating 10 wifi inhibiting paint/paper is cheap, flows like, well, wallpaper and paint, and effectively blocks outside signals. |
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Jun 23 2007, 08:19 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
there is no disparity between the rules and real-world tech, in this case. or, at least, not much disparity. as Rotbart has pointed out, even the badassest wifi-inhibiting wallpaper, in SR4, can be overcome with enough Signal and ECCM.
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Jun 23 2007, 09:22 PM
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#11
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
This has never been in doubt. But it takes significant power to do so, which is the point - it filters out the garbage.
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Jun 23 2007, 09:36 PM
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#12
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I must be missing something Rotbart van Dainig because the way I read ECCM wouldn't it only work if the broadcasting unit is running the program?
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Jun 23 2007, 09:51 PM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That rule makes my head hurt. So I'm assuming the devs didn't loose their sanity and were speaking about two-way connections the matrix normally needs - so both nodes need to run enough ECCM.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:00 PM
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#14
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Ok, so if I understand you correctly then in a worse-case scenerio Wi-Fi Blocking ( Rating 10 ) is needed to block a Stealth Tag ( Signal 6 ) running ECCM (Rating 3 ).
I guess its lucky that Stealth Tags only have a ( Device Rating 3 ) otherwise they would be impossible to counter. *EDIT* Although it does beg a question, what would be the 'typical' level of Wi-Fi Blocking found in various buildings? Surely the corps wouldn't really want Wi-Fi Blocking capable of hindering their Security/Stealth Tags to be so widespread as to be useless but on the other hand they would want it to on hand to protect their buildings from Deckers/Riggers... |
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Jun 23 2007, 10:00 PM
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#15
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
So, he'll need a Rating 5 transmitter and a rating 6 ECCM on all of his drones, and his relay-station car...
Heh. That would be funny if one has the ECCM, but not the other. "You're reasonably sure your commands are getting to your drone, but you can't recieve any of it's feedback. Have fun." |
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Jun 23 2007, 10:07 PM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Steahl Tags still only got Signal 1. Take a closer look at the rules and the table.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:16 PM
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#17
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
:oops: When I glanced at the RFID Tags I missed where the table switched from Signal to System and then to Avaliablity, I stand corrected. (And here I thought I was mistaken in an earlier Thread when I was talking about how Tags weren't all that big of a deal even for newer characters.) :oops:
Still, since a Stealth Tag has ( Device Rating 3 ) wouldn't it also have ( Signal 3 )? I thought that the bit about RFID Tags only having ( Signal 1 ) was referring to normal Tags and not Security/Stealth Tags. |
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Jun 23 2007, 10:19 PM
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#18
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That depends on you, but normaly, specific values override Device Rating.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:22 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
That statement doesn't make sense when applied to security and stealth tags. They have a device rating 3 which allows them Matrix stats of 3, which means they have a Signal of 3.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:25 PM
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#20
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..unless the GM chooses to specify individual values as the device is important - and the Signal for RFIDs is 1. Take a closer look on the device rating rules.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:31 PM
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#21
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Hmm, I stand corrected again. Tags are starting to look less and less scary and the best tag running ECCM is bested by ( Rating 5 ) Wi-Fi Block or by getting 41 meters away from a Matrix Router.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:48 PM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
not quite. you can upgrade the tag. |
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Jun 23 2007, 10:54 PM
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#23
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
There are more interesting ways to burn money, though.
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Jun 23 2007, 10:55 PM
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#24
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well I would assume that ( Signal 1 ) is the best that you could squeeze into a tiny RFID Tag, and upgrading the Responce in order to run better ECCM very quickly becomes cost prohibative.
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Jun 23 2007, 11:18 PM
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#25
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Well In RAW one can get response upgrades for half cost, ie build their own.
Again one can write the softwares or copy one, then put it everything, initial costs time and or one copy of the software. WMS Working on the Spam Drone/Hacker, with upgraded RFID tags as the emitting source of spam. |
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